Is anyone familiar with the neighborhood around Vienna Metro? (Reston: mortgage, realty)

[JesDC]

We live in DC but would like to move to VA to shorten my husband's commute. Is anyone familiar with the neighborhood around Vienna Metro, particularly in the 22181 zip code? Is this a decent neighborhood? There are not so many townhouses on market, and the sellers are not lowering the prices. Thanks in advance!

[claremarie]

Any decent property within walking distance to the Metro will command a premium, so it's not surprising that sellers are not (yet) lowering their prices. Vienna is a very nice area, with great schools, shopping, easy access to Tyson's (using some back road shortcuts) and, of course, the Metro into DC. These are the things that many buyers are seeking, which will be reflected in the prices.

[JesDC]

Thank you. You are absolutely right - owners do command a premium. I just checked the 2008 assessment value on the Fairfax county website, many owners are asking a lot more than the assessed value. I'm wondering how long this will last.

Originally Posted by claremarie

Any decent property within walking distance to the Metro will command a premium, so it's not surprising that sellers are not (yet) lowering their prices. Vienna is a very nice area, with great schools, shopping, easy access to Tyson's (using some back road shortcuts) and, of course, the Metro into DC. These are the things that many buyers are seeking, which will be reflected in the prices.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by JesDC

Thank you. You are absolutely right - owners do command a premium. I just checked the 2008 assessment value on the Fairfax county website, many owners are asking a lot more than the assessed value. I'm wondering how long this will last.

The excess of market over assessed value has been the case for as long as I've lived in the Vienna/Oakton area, which is about 30 years, so I wouldn't want to wait around too long just on that account. For the most part, the housing market in and around Vienna has reacted to recent developments by shrinking in volume rather than price.

Re your other questions, 22181 is not actually Vienna. The Town itself is in 22180. The former is most of Oakton and everything north of I-66 all the way out into Hunter Valley and up to the SE edge of Reston. That's a big hunk of land, and particularly the more rural-like northern extents of it are upscale and then some. The area right around the Vienna Metro is mostly townhouses, with everything to the north being very nice indeed. Prices aren't that bad, all in all. Northeast of the station, you'd be in actual Vienna, mostly smaller homes built in the 60's, but with an increasing mix of custom homes built where smaller homes used to be. On the south side of I-66, there are some older TH developments with a few McMansion-type SFH's and TH's blended in. The latter are quite expensive, many of the former are not.

As for decency, on the whole the area is about as decent as you can get without going to jet-setter-like extremes. Great homes, great schools, great community, great access to shopping, dining, parks, and entertainment, and all a 30-minute Metro ride from downtown DC. That's pretty hard to beat, so most places won't. It all comes at a price, but while it can be, it need not be staggering...

[JesDC]

Thank you very much! This is the kind of "insider information" I'm looking for. I totally agree with you - the Vienna market has reacted by shrinking in volume rather than price. We've been looking in the area for about 2 months, but there are only a handful of houses for sale in the neighborhoods within walking distance to metro. I'm wondering if there will be more on market in the spring/summer time. The waiting is kind of painful.

Originally Posted by saganista

The excess of market over assessed value has been the case for as long as I've lived in the Vienna/Oakton area, which is about 30 years, so I wouldn't want to wait around too long just on that account. For the most part, the housing market in and around Vienna has reacted to recent developments by shrinking in volume rather than price.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by saganista

Re your other questions, 22181 is not actually Vienna. The Town itself is in 22180. The former is most of Oakton and everything north of I-66 all the way out into Hunter Valley and up to the SE edge of Reston. That's a big hunk of land, and particularly the more rural-like northern extents of it are upscale and then some.

Well, that's not entirely true actually. I know this because I grew up in Vienna. When I was very young, we used to live on Locust street in the 22180 zip code right behind Magruder's. We later moved to a new neighborhood behind James Madison High School.

When we first moved, the Town of Vienna would only plow snow halfway up the cul-de-sac we lived in because the town line physically split our court into two sections. The lower half was in the town boundary and the circle itself and part of the stem below was not. Our address was "Vienna", but we did not get the benefits of living within the town because we were literally right outside the boundary. The snow plows knew this somehow and would actually lift their plow or stop plowing halfway up the court, which frustrated my parents who lived at the end up in the circle. Later, a Fairfax County snowplow would come by (a day later on average) and finish the plowing.

Eventually, the town expanded the boundary to include all of the houses in the cul-de-sac. The zip code did not change however. It was always 22181 for all of the houses in the cul-de-sac.

Just a nugget of information. =D

To be quite honest with you, as a kid growing up, I was happier living in the second house. A neighbor of ours (<10 years old) was killed riding his bike at the intersection of Locust and Courthouse because a car ran the stop sign there by Tiny Tots preschool. While I could walk to Vienna Elementary, once we moved, I could still walk to Louise Archer and later Madison. In fact, I could leaving our house when the 5 minute warning bell rang and still be on time for my first class. Quite a convenience, particularly since I didn't have to put up with the cruel bus! I think I enjoyed the second neighborhood more because it was a new development at the time and there were like 27 kids of varying ages in the cul-de-sac and we all moved in the same summer. I had a ton of neighborhood friends and we were close. Living in the older house in the middle of Vienna, we were surrounded by many different age groups, but three of our immediate neighbors were elderly and I recall them dying off before we moved. Sad. None of my immediate friends lived on the same street because of the age differential in that neighborhood.

In response to the original poster, the area around the metro has been dramatically developed in the 33 years I've known the town. Like Saganista said, the street by the metro mostly consists of townhouse and condo developments. However, if you're interested, you could look in the area around Kingsley by Marshall Road Elementary. They are older houses for the most part, but they're priced around the half-million mark. There's been one house on Kingsley rotting on the market for over 8 months and it's currently listed at $550K. I personally wouldn't buy it for over $450K because it doesn't have a garage and was built in 1958, but people are trying to get the most for their buck still.

If you want a townhouse, check out those around the Vienna metro using Sawbuck, Zip Realty, or some other real-estate site that lets you drag a map around and specify price ranges, etc. You can find more in the neighborhood right in front of Madison High School. Those are older though and the dynamic is definitely different. Really though, the 22181 neighborhood has some gems though if you know where to look. It's not a bad place and to be honest with you, as a kid, I had no problem walking or biking into town from the Madison High School area. Obviously walking to a grocery store from Locust St. was a lot more convenient, but each location had its plusses and minuses.

You're right that many people are refusing to lower their price and many are chasing the market down, but houses are still going under contract in Vienna and the slump hasn't hit it as hard as in other places. How do I know? Because I've been watching the realty websites for Vienna for 2 and a half years now because my wife and I are renting at Tysons Corner and looking to move back into Vienna where I grew up and my parents still live. Plus, I personally know people who've sold their house and/or are planning to sell. It's a great town with a sense of community and despite some long road projects, some issues with the town council, congestion on 123, and a few other things, it's a great place to live and raise a family. The school pyramid is top notch. You won't find too many better than Louise Archer, Thoreau, and Madison and you can get those in the 22181 zip code.

You will find some gems if you keep looking though. And don't be bashful about offering lower than list price just to see what you can get. A lot of houses are selling for less than their list price. Usually the good houses that are priced right sell within the first week though.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope it was at least a little informative. Good luck!

[saganista]

Originally Posted by JesDC

Thank you very much! This is the kind of "insider information" I'm looking for. I totally agree with you - the Vienna market has reacted by shrinking in volume rather than price. We've been looking in the area for about 2 months, but there are only a handful of houses for sale in the neighborhoods within walking distance to metro. I'm wondering if there will be more on market in the spring/summer time. The waiting is kind of painful.

Usually, the Spring does bring an uptick in activity, and with mortgage rates around 5.5%, it's a pretty good time to be a buyer. Of course, that means it's still not all that good a time to be a seller, so we'll see. It may be that some who have delayed a preference to sell on account of the market will decide to end their holdouts and at least get out and test the waters. Absent good news, others may decide that having waited this long, they can just as easily wait another year or two. Very hard to predict these things. The best strategy I guess is just to keep that very close eye on things and be ready to move quickly should the opportunity you want suddenly pop onto the radar screen...

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope it was at least a little informative. Good luck!

Informative and enjoyable, too. There used to be quite a few town-line anomalies like that, but I guess about ten years ago now -- maybe more -- the Town and the County got together and swapped this bit for that bit in an attempt to make things a little more rational. The zip code boundaries were drawn to make mail delivery routes rational to begin with, so no changes needed there. There are still a few border oddities over on the southeast side of town around the Midgetville area, but I think most of the rest got cleaned up. It matters some, since if you're inside the town-line, you pay Vienna taxes, and if you're outside, you don't. Then again, you get all those top-notch Vienna services for free if you're inside, and you have to pay somebody to do them if you're not.

As for the negotiatin' thing, it's a tough call. Most houses that sell are selling for below list, but I wonder how many houses could have sold but didn't just because of irrationalities. You hear plenty of complaining out there about sellers who still think it's 2003, but not so much about buyers who think that sellers should simply give their houses away. In the end, it all still comes down to one actual house, one potential buyer, and one potential seller. If the property fits your needs and wants well and you're thinking of holding whatever you buy for a while, just being a reasonable person may earn you a lot of brownie points. Your realtor may, of course, disagree...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by saganista

There are still a few border oddities over on the southeast side of town around the Midgetville area, but I think most of the rest got cleaned up.

Glad you enjoyed the post saganista! I have a question actually. Where exactly is Midgetville? I've heard about it numerous times growing up and I've driven around the Thoreau/bike trail area many times just looking at houses in general and trying to see what Midgetville looks like. My wife and I thought we found it a few years back but we weren't sure. The houses sure looked smaller but we thought maybe we were just making ourselves believe they were! And unfortunately we didn't see any residents out and about.

In hindsight, that may read poorly. We actually have nothing against little people and certainly don't want them to feel like exhibits. It's just that all the rumors we've heard got the better of our curiosity and we wanted to see cute little houses! Besides, one should be knowledgeable about one's hometown, right?

As for the buyer/seller thing. My wife and I are buyers waiting on the sideline with a big down payment ready. But we're not going to pull the trigger until we find something we're truly happy with for a price we feel is justified. We've found a number of places we'd be happy with, but we couldn't spring ourselves to pay as much as they wanted. To be quite honest with you, I do feel many (not all!) sellers are expecting a bit much for their houses.

I constantly hear things like "it's Vienna!", "prices don't decrease around here!", "NoVA is protected from the bubble by government jobs and the employment around here", etc. etc. Well, I think it's safe to say that prices ARE going down, even in this area. Yet I see the same houses sit on the market *forever*, with minor price decreases. Later, the sellers will remove them from the market and relist them under a new MLS number. Perhaps new buyers may not notice this, but any buyer who has been sitting on the sideline and watching the listings in a particular area WILL notice it. I keep track of those houses, what they used to be listed at, how much they were reduced, and how much they were relisted at.

The simple fact of the matter is that those games rarely work. What does work is an aggressive price.

Take this example for instance. I know the sellers of this house personally and the husband is a hands-on guy who kept his house in GREAT shape. I've been in it and I can attest that you'd find very little wrong with it if anything.

- Property Finder

The home is a full-sized colonial with a large addition on the side (you can see it on the left). You have no HOA and it's in a nice well-kept neighborhood. It went under contract (Contingent with No Kick Out) in about 8 days. I actually would've bid on it had it not been too close to my parents' house! Plus, I couldn't fathom trying to bid lower on a house from people I know personally.

Compare the house above against the one linked below. This one is located in an older neighborhood with an HOA (dues are $515/yr):

- Property Finder

I don't know about you, but I know which house I would've picked and it would've have been the second. There are actually other examples I could probably use, but I have to get back to work! =)

Anyways, just my thoughts as a buyer waiting it out. We're ready to buy, but we're not going to buy simply because the realtors and builders out there are telling us now is a great time to buy. In our opinion, houses are still over-valued in this area despite the high average incomes and we feel they will come down some more. That isn't to say we won't buy if we feel a house is priced correctly.

We've spoken to a lot of sellers and while some are just testing the waters and really don't care about lowering their prices and selling, others actually feel they're owed AT LEAST "this much". One of our friends just sold their house for less than they'd hoped. And the first words out of their mouth were that they were disappointed. It wasn't until they told us what they bought it for and the fact that they made 250% profit that I practically slapped them upside their heads and told them they shouldn't be disappointed, but happy! So what if they didn't make 300% profit on their initial price! We'd all be millionaires if we could time the stock market like that! It's that attitude that is keeping some people from selling their homes. Some are even pricing their homes above 2005/2006 levels and they wonder why they're not selling... Same thing with realtors...some are realistic and some are not from what we've experienced. I don't feel sellers should just give away their homes, but many of them need to be a little more realistic, particularly those who've had their homes on the market for over a year.

[shauna714]

The area around Vienna metro is a very nice neighborhood. It's a wooded neighborhood with a lot of small, older brick rambler homes, but many of these are being replaced with really large brand new homes, so you have quite a mix. The neighborhood is very safe. There are both older and newer townhouses of all sizes right near the metro. The prices are very high because Vienna is very desirable, convenient to Tyson's Corner and Washington DC. You have the best of both worlds because all of the conveniences are there, yet in the Vienna Woods neighborhood it is quiet enough to find some peace and some space from your neighbors.