Why do people put up with HOA's? (Fairfax: home, pros and cons)

[5stones]

2) people were aware of them at the time of purchase

YOU are instucted by the Title company and your realtor to READ the book BEFORE you sign at closing. IF you don't then DON'T complain. MOst are online and you can read them before you make an offer.

As a buyer you are obligated to inform yourself.

Reminds me of the guy awhile back that sign the contract on hte house and then was upset to find out his neighobor was a sex offender. He wanted to back out of the contract. REsearch before you buy.

I lived in both non HOA and HOA there is good and bad to both sides.
(not having to look at the lime green 1970's RV parked across the street for YEARS..is one pro)

[vanyali]

Originally Posted by 5stones

YOU are instucted by the Title company and your realtor to READ the book BEFORE you sign at closing. IF you don't then DON'T complain. MOst are online and you can read them before you make an offer.

My closing attorney didn't turn up the restrictive covenants on my deed at all. I didn't find out about them for a couple of years. And then I told him to go back and look some more, and he still couldn't find them. And they're a big deal, and yes the neighbors sue eachother over them. Horrible.

Originally Posted by 5stones

As a buyer you are obligated to inform yourself.

Reminds me of the guy awhile back that sign the contract on hte house and then was upset to find out his neighobor was a sex offender. He wanted to back out of the contract. REsearch before you buy.

Why can't he back out? That's what the earnest money deposit is for -- compensate the seller if the buyer backs out.

[vanyali]

What? Are you trying to get permission to trim a tree, or trying to get the HOA to pay to trim a tree for you? Why don't you get a sawz-all and a ladder and just take care of it already instead of spending 16 months fighting your neighbors over it?

[Mimi2u]

I live in Prince William County and unfortunately, in a community with an HOA. I was told once that you will either love your HOA or hate them...there's no in between. Well that was correct. I live in a nice community, however, the house next to me, that I refer to as "The Adams Family House", has been vacant since late 2005. The owners do absolutely nothing to maintain the property, so in my book, the property is abandoned. When flyers, advertisements, newspapers, and telephone books are left at the property, I have to look at it...so I go over and pick it all up and discard it. Each spring and summer I must contend with 2' to 5' tall grass and weeds. I have to call the county's residential enforcement department in order to get the grass cut. Ask me what the HOA does? NOTHING but send out bills for the dues. Right now...today...the grass remains uncut and there are weeds in the yard that are 5 feet tall. I am in no way exaggerating because I am 5'3" tall and the weeds come up to my chin. I know people complain about HOAs restricting what a homeowner can and cannot do...but I surely wish given my situation, my HOA would DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN HOLD THEIR HANDS OUT TO COLLECT DUES FOR NOTHING!

[knopfler]

Originally Posted by Mimi2u

I live in Prince William County and unfortunately, in a community with an HOA. I was told once that you will either love your HOA or hate them...there's no in between. Well that was correct. I live in a nice community, however, the house next to me, that I refer to as "The Adams Family House", has been vacant since late 2005. The owners do absolutely nothing to maintain the property, so in my book, the property is abandoned. When flyers, advertisements, newspapers, and telephone books are left at the property, I have to look at it...so I go over and pick it all up and discard it. Each spring and summer I must contend with 2' to 5' tall grass and weeds. I have to call the county's residential enforcement department in order to get the grass cut. Ask me what the HOA does? NOTHING but send out bills for the dues. Right now...today...the grass remains uncut and there are weeds in the yard that are 5 feet tall. I am in no way exaggerating because I am 5'3" tall and the weeds come up to my chin. I know people complain about HOAs restricting what a homeowner can and cannot do...but I surely wish given my situation, my HOA would DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN HOLD THEIR HANDS OUT TO COLLECT DUES FOR NOTHING!

If you want to get action you might find out who insures the property, call that company up and tell them the property is abandoned and vacant. It'll instantly make the insuring company drop the policy, and get the attention of the owners *real* quick.

In (mild) defense of the HOA, if they've sent letters to the address of record and threatened to put a lein on the property, and gotten no response, I'm not entirely sure what their options are other than to place the lein and wait for the owners to either try to make a transaction or get foreclosed upon. Can anyone comment on what the HOA *could* do in this situation?

[Azmordean]

Originally Posted by normie

How is this any different from city government? Or county government? It works the same way, it's the homebuyer's responsibility to find out about laws before buying a home.

You can't claim "I didn't think the laws were valid and enforceable" or that you "weren't aware of them at the time of purchase" if you break the laws of a city or a county. So why should that be a valid point with HOAs?

And city/county laws can change after you buy a home, too... that's life. For example, hunting was legal in Eastern Loudoun County when I purchased my house. That does not give me the right to go hunting there now.

It's all the same: If you don't like the laws of a certain city or a certain county, don't move there. If you don't like HOA rules, don't move there.

In Loudoun, HOAs are really just a substitute for more expensive city governments. Since I happen to like my $$$ and am careful with it, I happen to prefer HOAs. But if you prefer to live in a city, that's great. I'm all for people like you, you're stimulating the economy. Now personally, I don't feel any need to build expensive city halls or hire city employees. Legum & Norman manage to run all of Cascades with a staff of 6 people. Can you imagine how many employees we would have if Cascades was a city government?

This attack on cities doesn't make much sense. Remember, in Virginia (and this is pretty much unique to Virginia), CITIES are *independent* of counties. Cities are not in counties like in most states, but are separate entities entirely. TOWNS are incorporated areas in counties.


If you look at tax rates, you will find that Independent Cities generally have SUBSTANTIALLY lower property taxes than counties. For example, when my mom was looking in Winchester, it was surprising how low the taxes were in Winchester City as compared to Frederick County, despite generally higher assessed values in the city.

Thus, this whole idea that HOAs are a cheap replacement for cities is simply false - you are already paying more to live in the county than you would in a city in the first place. Towns are probably the worst tax wise, because you pay county tax plus a slight premium for the Town.

HOAs are not a replacement government - they exist for two purposes:

1) To maintain the community's common areas.
2) To enforce aesthetic regulations.

The first seldom creates much tension. The second can be a serious pro as far as keeping people from painting a house hot pink, keep them from having six cars in their front yard, etc. SOME HOAs though go overboard. I heard of a homeowner being cited because his son kissed his date on the porch before going inside - the HOA had some kind of ban on public display of affection. There were also complaints of Atlanta area HOAs during the drought - apparently they cited people for not keeping their lawn pristine - as if that's an appropriate thing to worry about when the city was looking at 60 days of drinking water.

Some of the worst HOAs are in "gated community" type neighborhoods. My professor in a Land Use Control class in law school indicated that this occurred because the retirees in such neighborhoods were, during their hayday, high powered lawyers, CEOs, etc - people used to having power and being respected. Now all the sudden they are retired and marginalized and largely ignored, so they get on these HOA boards (whom working people don't have time to serve on) and rule with the proverbial iron fist - all the while not subject to any kind of Constitutional limitations because HOA's are considered private actors, not government. All I can say is there are pros and cons to HOAs - just be sure to check the regulations out. If they are reasonable, a HOA can be very valuable, but beware the iron fisted varieties.

[knopfler]

Originally Posted by jahutch

If you look at tax rates, you will find that Independent Cities generally have SUBSTANTIALLY lower property taxes than counties. For example, when my mom was looking in Winchester, it was surprising how low the taxes were in Winchester City as compared to Frederick County, despite generally higher assessed values in the city.

This isn't true in Prince William...both Manassas City and (especially) Manassas Park City have substantially higher property taxes than Prince William County. Manassas is $1.155, Manassas Park is $1.24, and Prince William's is $1.00.

[Azmordean]

Originally Posted by knopfler

This isn't true in Prince William...both Manassas City and (especially) Manassas Park City have substantially higher property taxes than Prince William County. Manassas is $1.155, Manassas Park is $1.24, and Prince William's is $1.00.

Interesting - that's the first time I've come across that. Most of the places I've checked are outside NOVA admittedly. Nonetheless, I think the premise that the reason for the existence of HOAs is that they are "city government on the cheap" is just wrong. Most counties, particularly in NOVA, have city-like ordinances on the books, which they will enforce. The purpose of HOAs is to go beyond the law and to enforce much more stringent aesthetic regulations. There are pros and cons to this, as discussed.

[HEATHER72]

Originally Posted by knopfler

In (mild) defense of the HOA, if they've sent letters to the address of record and threatened to put a lein on the property, and gotten no response, I'm not entirely sure what their options are other than to place the lein and wait for the owners to either try to make a transaction or get foreclosed upon. Can anyone comment on what the HOA *could* do in this situation?

Our HOA sends out X amount of letters to the home owner about the long grass and then send out someone to cut it and bills them for it. I wouldn't let my neighbor's abandoned lawn get that long. I'd cut it myself if I was sick of looking at it.

[irvm]

Originally Posted by HEATHER72

Our HOA sends out X amount of letters to the home owner about the long grass and then send out someone to cut it and bills them for it. I wouldn't let my neighbor's abandoned lawn get that long. I'd cut it myself if I was sick of looking at it.

I'd cut it myself and BILL the HOA for my time (currently $50 per hour).