Alexandria City Car Decal Extortion (Leesburg: fit in, apartment complex, city hall)

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by TheEggman

Hello, I need 'B'
I'm sorry, but you must have 'A' before you get 'B'
OK, so how do I get 'A'?
You have to show me that you have 'B'
But I need 'A' to GET 'B'
That's your problem - it's way the system works. (or doesn't, as the case may be)

Also the only The 'visitor' stickers offered are for residential parking permits, not City Tax Stickers.



Grrrrr......



Egg

We ran into this with Prince William. My wife had graduated from college in PA. Her parents loaned her a car to bring down to VA while she lived and looked for a job, etc. before we got married. Anyhow, we got the ticket saying we had to register. Wanting to abide by the law we went to the County office to register. The problem was the form wanted it registered in the name of the owner who was my father-in-law in PA. We filled it out, with the PA address, and were told, "this is a PA address. It needs to be a PW address". But we couldn't use our address because we weren't the owners. It had to be under the owner's name. The owner and the address had to match. She wouldn't let us put our names down because we weren't on the title. We went round and round. She actually got mad and said, "I don't know what you are waiting for. It would be easier if you would just switch over the title". Now wouldn't that be nice, if I could just ask other people to hand over their car's title to me?

[TheEggman]

I finally found the cite I need!

§ 46.2-755. Limitations on imposition of motor vehicle license taxes and fees.

A. No county, city, or town shall impose any motor vehicle license tax or fee on any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer when:

1. A similar tax or fee is imposed by the county, city, or town wherein the vehicle is normally garaged, stored or parked;

I also got an official opinion from the DMV on the word 'registration'

The car is TITLED in VA, to a person who lives in Alexandria.

The 'registered address' however, is where the vehicle is customarily parked, garaged or stored.

That information is on the DMV Registration Card a few lines below the owners address and above the 'Bar' Code.

[TheEggman]

When I asked the City how they reconcile my need to pay a fee with ...

A. No county, city, or town shall impose any motor vehicle license tax or fee on any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer when: 1. A similar tax or fee is imposed by the county, city, or town wherein the vehicle is normally garaged, stored or parked;

I was told it's not a tax or a fee, but something they are doing for the convenience of City residents who have vehicles registered in jurisdictions that don't require decals. (An increasing number)

They are providing this convenience so that I won't keep receiving $40.00 tickets for no Decal, which they have made it nearly impossible for me to purchase by requiring a Paid Receipt for my Stafford County taxes before they will sell me one. (Stafford County doesn't issue Tax Bills until Dec.)

The law above does not say PAID TO, it says IMPOSED BY, two completely different meanings.

It looks to me that what they are trying to do is impose a City Wide Parking Fee/Commuter Tax on all non-residents as surrounding jurisdictions eliminate their City/County sticker requirements.

Nahhhh...they wouldn't be that smart.

This is starting to be fun!


Egg

"If you can't be free, at least be irritating."

[car54]

Your best bet is to park the truck in Stafford like you told DMV you were going to do.

You see, claiming a "garage jurisdiction" (DMV lingo) of Stafford County and actually garaging the vehicle in the City of Alexandria is the oldest (car tax avoidance) trick in the book. I am NOT saying that is YOUR intent, but people have done it for many years, and the Revenue Commissioners (and their street cops) are very well aware of it.

Example: I have a neighbor who owns acreage in Nelson County, Va....all he has on the property is a hunting shack with no utilities at all. Yet he tells DMV that all five of his vehicles (including his '08 Vette) are garaged there in Nelson County....a rural county with a VERY low car tax rate. He hasn't paid a dime of car tax to Fairfax County in decades.

The small, affluent jurisdictions like Arlington and Alexandria City apparently are much more diligent in collecting their taxes than is spread-out Fairfax County.

The fact that Stafford County taxes are probably not much lower than Alexandria's is immaterial. If Alexandria cops see your truck in the City on a regular basis, then they going to assume you're trying to pull something.

Again, I'm not saying that YOU personally are.....but, like I said, it's an old, old, old trick and that's what you're up against.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by car54

Your best bet is to park the truck in Stafford like you told DMV you were going to do.

You see, claiming a "garage jurisdiction" (DMV lingo) of Stafford County and actually garaging the vehicle in the City of Alexandria is the oldest (car tax avoidance) trick in the book. I am NOT saying that is YOUR intent, but people have done it for many years, and the Revenue Commissioners (and their street cops) are very well aware of it.

Example: I have a neighbor who owns acreage in Nelson County, Va....all he has on the property is a hunting shack with no utilities at all. Yet he tells DMV that all five of his vehicles (including his '08 Vette) are garaged there in Nelson County....a rural county with a VERY low car tax rate. He hasn't paid a dime of car tax to Fairfax County in decades.

That doesn't seem to be the case here.
According to the OP: The truck is ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY for use in Stafford County.

I've brought the truck into the city only three times since may, never more than 3-4 days in a row, so I could haul some furniture, trash and construction materials for the fixer-upper from Alexandria to Stafford County.

[TheEggman]

Originally Posted by car54

Your best bet is to park the truck in Stafford like you told DMV you were going to do.

Are you suggesting that I should never bring the truck into Alexandria for 2 or 3 days to move some furniture, or if my 'regular' car breaks down just because OTHER PEOPLE commit fraud? The fact that your neighbor is guilty of tax fraud and effectively stealing money from you and the rest of the law-abiding public is immaterial in this circumstance.

At 16 MPG and a two-hour round trip I don't think it's prudent to take it back to Stafford County each night if I only need it here for two or three days.

Since it was purchased in May it has spent a total of 12 days in the City, and never more than three or four in a row, and always for a reason that required a 'truck.'

And even if I did 'cave in' and want to buy one of their 33.00 'protection scheme' decals they have made it impossible to do so.

The more I think of it, the more it does resemble a 'protection' scam.

"Guido here is gonna drop by every year and collect your 'convenience fee.' In return we'll give you a decal to put on your store window so 'somebody' won't burn it down. But the Decal is completely optional, as long as you don't mind broken legs."

One of the latest people I talked to said something that was very similar.

"You don't have to display a decal, as long as you don't mind dealing with the tickets."

When you get three you get towed.

IOW - Extortion!

E

[tgbwc]

You're right. Your situation is not comparable to someone with property in Nelson County not paying Fairfax taxes. That person lives in, keeps their cars in, and uses them in Fairfax Co. Your truck is parked and used almost exclusively in Stafford. If I visit my mom 3 days a week in Alexandria, they don't expect me to buy a sticker just to avoid getting a ticket...do they?

[car54]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

You're right. Your situation is not comparable to someone with property in Nelson County not paying Fairfax taxes. That person lives in, keeps their cars in, and uses them in Fairfax Co. Your truck is parked and used almost exclusively in Stafford. If I visit my mom 3 days a week in Alexandria, they don't expect me to buy a sticker just to avoid getting a ticket...do they?

I was not comparing the details of the OP's situation to that of my neighbor. Obviously, my neighbor is an extreme case. I was just trying to explain where the City of Alexandria is coming from.

I'm curious as to how the OP attracted this attention. I was an Arlington cop for a few years in the mid '70s and believe me, I was the scourge of the tax scofflaws at several large apartment complexes. Still, I doubt I would have noticed a vehicle that was around as seldom as the OP states his was.

OP, do you live in an apartment or a development with a tough HOA? I think somebody dropped a dime on you.

[TheEggman]

Originally Posted by car54

I was not comparing the details of the OP's situation to that of my neighbor. Obviously, my neighbor is an extreme case. I was just trying to explain where the City of Alexandria is coming from.

I'm curious as to how the OP attracted this attention. I was an Arlington cop for a few years in the mid '70s and believe me, I was the scourge of the tax scofflaws at several large apartment complexes. Still, I doubt I would have noticed a vehicle that was around as seldom as the OP states his was.

OP, do you live in an apartment or a development with a tough HOA? I think somebody dropped a dime on you.

I live on a short, dead-end with a cul-de-sac, no Homeowners Assn or Covenants and have had no problems with neighbors for 20 years here.

The police LOVE to set up radar on the corner of the street, it seems to be a cash cow, so I get a lot of motor officers up and down the street.

Also, there are several high-ranking and would-be high-ranking politicos who live on the street and there is a lot of police traffic. (A neighbor recently had Condi Rice over for dinner) and no, I'm far from wealthy. I bought the house over 20 years ago BEFORE it was a pricey neighborhood. I couldn't afford the mortgage if I bought it today.

Finally, the county in which the truck lives doesn't issue county stickers. (Many areas are phasing them out as an unnecessary expense.) A vehicle in Alexandria without a sticker (especially a white, full-size pickup) would draw attention.

Best,

Egg

[juniperbleu]

I just had another idea, is it possible to get a visitor sticker for the truck? Yes, it's a pain, but probably less so than a ticket. You could even try going at the angle of "I have a friend visiting for a few days and don't want any parking problems, what should he do?" Whatever they say to do, give it a shot.

I'm glad I never had these problems in Alexandria, I lived there for a year without switching over my PA plates, registration, and license. I don't know if I just got lucky, or it's because my license said "Philadelphia".