Local Opinions on Best Places to Live in NOVA (Chantilly: public schools, college)

[handy man88]

Originally Posted by saganista

Useful if one were a mail carrier. But as previosuly noted, mail carriers might believe that houses across the street from the Reston Zoo are in Vienna (22182), even though they are a 20-minute drive from there.


One needs to keep distinct the actual incorporated limits of Falls Church (and Vienna, Herndon, Fairfax, etc.) from the vernacular names that are commonly used in reference to unincorporated areas around them. Just the difference in taxes and in associated municipal services (including public schools, in the case of Falls Church) is significant.

As for how to tell where you are in an unincorporated area, there are (by defintion) no rules to go by, only guidelines. One such is to consider that if you went out and got in your car to go downtown and do some grocery shopping, where would you end up? If you lived next door to Westgate ES, you'd likely end up in McLean. If you lived next door to Haycock ES, you'd likely end up in Falls Church. That's one way to gauge the focus of where you live, and if you don't live in an incorporated area proper, it's that sort of focus that is the important thing. Focus, however, remains distinct from residency in these incorporated versus unincorporated cases.

Looking back at the Pimmit Hills situation, if you lived on the Route-7 side, your focus would likely be toward Falls Church. If you lived on the 267 side, your focus would likely be toward McLean. It's probably not helpful then to claim that the neighborhood as a whole is actually in either one of them. Looking at my own unincorporated Vienna/Oakton case in that light, if I'm doing a week's worth of shopping, I'm all but certain to end up in Vienna, as you've got Margruder's, Whole Foods, Safeway, and Giant all within three-quarters of a mile of each other, and I'm likely to want to hit at least three of the four. If I just need a few things, it's a simple matter to pop into Oakton. Might pick up a sandwich at Santini's while I'm there. Those are good. Some who live a little west of me might be in an Oakton/Vienna situation. Further still, and they might be Oakton/Fairfax. And after them would come actual residents within the incorporated limits of Fairfax City.

Those who have lived here for a while have some sort of understanding of all this, but it's a unique situation here in VA, and those still on the outside looking in don't have that sort if understanding. Trying to fit the rules (or lack of rules) here into something that they can relate to in their existing frame of reference seems to me to be the name of the game alright, but you can't lose the important distinction between incorporated and unincorporated in the process...

It's interesting how you disregard how areas are officially denoted, but instead go by shopping convenience.

I guess those living on the border between counties should only consider the county where they shop the most. That would make most people from PG County as Virginians instead since there's little shopping in PG. Or, those living in Arlington should consider themselves FFX Cty residents if they shop at Tysons more than they do at Ballston Commons.

Taxes and postal codes seem like the best way to make the determination....doesn't matter what you feel..what matters is the official record.

[claremarie]

Haycock (and Longfellow) may have Falls Church mailing addresses, but they are really part of the McLean community. They are part of the McLean HS pyramid, the kids play on McLean youth sports teams, and many of them belong to one of the McLean swim/tennis clubs. I lived in the Arlington/Falls Church/McLean area for more than 20 years, and in my experience only those who actually lived in the City of Falls Church would say "Falls Church" when asked where they lived.
OTOH, there are many people (and even more realtors) on the "other" side of the City of Falls Church, which borders some lower-income areas of Fairfax County, will describe themselves as living (or their listings as being) in "Falls Church."

With regard to Kent Gardens, it, like the other elementary schools in the area, is a high-performing school with demanding professional parents.

[handy man88]

Originally Posted by claremarie

Haycock (and Longfellow) may have Falls Church mailing addresses, but they are really part of the McLean community. They are part of the McLean HS pyramid, the kids play on McLean youth sports teams, and many of them belong to one of the McLean swim/tennis clubs. I lived in the Arlington/Falls Church/McLean area for more than 20 years, and in my experience only those who actually lived in the City of Falls Church would say "Falls Church" when asked where they lived.
OTOH, there are many people (and even more realtors) on the "other" side of the City of Falls Church, which borders some lower-income areas of Fairfax County, will describe themselves as living (or their listings as being) in "Falls Church."

With regard to Kent Gardens, it, like the other elementary schools in the area, is a high-performing school with demanding professional parents.

Given that, it's not surprising that a lot of the communities in Falls Church that border Kirby, Westmoreland, Great Falls, etc. and aren't in the McLean zip code have community names that associate themselves with McLean.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by handy man88

It's interesting how you disregard how areas are officially denoted, but instead go by shopping convenience. I guess those living on the border between counties should only consider the county where they shop the most. That would make most people from PG County as Virginians instead since there's little shopping in PG. Or, those living in Arlington should consider themselves FFX Cty residents if they shop at Tysons more than they do at Ballston Commons. Taxes and postal codes seem like the best way to make the determination....doesn't matter what you feel..what matters is the official record.

The point that I have been trying to make (and which, by now, I'd guess all but a very few understand) is that there ARE no such officially denoted names or defined areas for most places in Northern Virgina, not to mention the rest of the state. Save for Hawaii (which has no incorporated places at all), Virginia is unique in this regard.

All of Virginia's 98 counties are officially defined. In addition, a total of 39 cities within the state are officially incorporated and defined. In NoVa, these include Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park. There are a further 190 towns that are officially incorporated and defined within the state. In Fairfax County, there are three -- Vienna, Herndon, and Clifton. In Loudon County, there are seven -- Leesburg, Purcellville, Lovettsville, Hamilton, Middleburg, Round Hill, and Hillsboro. In Prince William County, there are four -- Dumfries, Quantico, Haymarket, and Occoquan. If you live in NoVa and don't live within the established boundaries of one of these cities or towns, then you don't officially live anywhere. You are simply a resident of your respective County and nothing more.

This is disconcerting to various groups of people. Among these are mail carriers, census takers, and everybody else who lives here. The first two groups have independently drawn their own independent sets of lines on an empty map that are relevant to them in their work, but have no further significance at all. The third group makes do with an entirely informal and undocumented system of place names that is based on soft variables such as custom and individual orientation...what I referred to earlier as "focus". People live where they feel like they live. Unless you live in an incorporated area, there is no more basis to it than that. You can't run for Mayor of McLean, you can't attend meetings of the Centreville City Council, and there is no way to tell when you have entered or left Ashburn. None of these places actually exists.

As I have noted earlier, there are significant differences between living in an incorporated area versus an unincorporated area that have to do with taxes, public services, community activities, and in some cases, schools. People looking to move into NoVa from a different state should not be misled into thinking that things here are other than what they actually are. Neither Westgate ES nor Haycock ES is in Falls Church. If you lived next to Haycock, you might feel like you lived in Falls Church. If you lived next to Westgate, you might feel like you lived in McLean, even though McLean itself is an illusion. That's how it is...that's how it should be portrayed...

[handy man88]

Originally Posted by saganista

The point that I have been trying to make (and which, by now, I'd guess all but a very few understand) is that there ARE no such officially denoted names or defined areas for most places in Northern Virgina, not to mention the rest of the state. Save for Hawaii (which has no incorporated places at all), Virginia is unique in this regard.

All of Virginia's 98 counties are officially defined. In addition, a total of 39 cities within the state are officially incorporated and defined. In NoVa, these include Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park. There are a further 190 towns that are officially incorporated and defined within the state. In Fairfax County, there are three -- Vienna, Herndon, and Clifton. In Loudon County, there are seven -- Leesburg, Purcellville, Lovettsville, Hamilton, Middleburg, Round Hill, and Hillsboro. In Prince William County, there are four -- Dumfries, Quantico, Haymarket, and Occoquan. If you live in NoVa and don't live within the established boundaries of one of these cities or towns, then you don't officially live anywhere. You are simply a resident of your respective County and nothing more.

This is disconcerting to various groups of people. Among these are mail carriers, census takers, and everybody else who lives here. The first two groups have independently drawn their own independent sets of lines on an empty map that are relevant to them in their work, but have no further significance at all. The third group makes do with an entirely informal and undocumented system of place names that is based on soft variables such as custom and individual orientation...what I referred to earlier as "focus". People live where they feel like they live. Unless you live in an incorporated area, there is no more basis to it than that. You can't run for Mayor of McLean, you can't attend meetings of the Centreville City Council, and there is no way to tell when you have entered or left Ashburn. None of these places actually exists.

As I have noted earlier, there are significant differences between living in an incorporated area versus an unincorporated area that have to do with taxes, public services, community activities, and in some cases, schools. People looking to move into NoVa from a different state should not be misled into thinking that things here are other than what they actually are. Neither Westgate ES nor Haycock ES is in Falls Church. If you lived next to Haycock, you might feel like you lived in Falls Church. If you lived next to Westgate, you might feel like you lived in McLean, even though McLean itself is an illusion. That's how it is...that's how it should be portrayed...

Huh?

So you're saying Haycock is not in Falls Church feel-wise, but "if you lived next to Haycock, you might feel like you lived in Falls Church?"

Does that make any sense?

It's interesting though...people living in West Falls Church near Haycock can and will tell people they live in McLean, but when people ask for the address, they'll tell them it's Falls Church.

It's almost like people living in Gaithersburg telling friends they live in "North Potomac."

[saganista]

Gaithersburg is a city in Maryland. No parts of Maryland are in Virginia. Gaithersburg was incorporated in 1878. People there can run for mayor, they can attend city council meetings, and they can tell precisely when and where they enter or leave the city. Try any of that in Chantilly. Can't be done.

Even though quite close to them, Haycock ES lies outside the city limits of Falls Church. It is therefore not in Falls Church. People who live next door to Haycock ES do not pay taxes to the City of Falls Church, nor (except under special circumstances) can their children attend any of those excellent Falls Church City Public Schools. Neighbors of Haycock ES do not in fact live in any defined area at all. They live in Fairfax County, but after that, they have nothing official to say. This does not sit well with folks who want to be able to say something more specific when asked where they live. Because they live so close to the city limits, they are likely to say that they live in Falls Church, even though they don't. The claim is based on a personal sense of affiliation, orientation, or focus, and nothing more than that.

A few miles away, there are people who will tell you that they live in McLean. Where is McLean? No one knows. McLean does not exist except as a concept in people's heads. Based on nothing more than their personal understandings of that concept, most people would agree that a person living at the intersection of Chain Bridge Road and Old Dominion Drive could honestly state that he or she lived in McLean. Where would the basis for such an honest claim end? Certainly at the Arlington border. Certainly at the Falls Church border. Certainly at the Vienna border. Otherwise, no one knows.

[g3org3]

And then there is poor Tysons Corner, an "edge city" that doesn't even rate its own mailing address.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by saganista

The point that I have been trying to make (and which, by now, I'd guess all but a very few understand) is that there ARE no such officially denoted names or defined areas for most places in Northern Virgina, not to mention the rest of the state. Save for Hawaii (which has no incorporated places at all), Virginia is unique in this regard.

I could be wrong about this, but I thought the southwestern states were the same way as Virginia, which is how cities like Phoenix keep expanding size-wise. They just take over some unincorporated area.

I do know that the Northeastern states are the way you described it. For instance, in Pennsylvania, most of your services, like school and police, come from the "township", while the county doesn't do much.

McLean itself is an illusion.

That was deep, man.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by pcity

I could be wrong about this, but I thought the southwestern states were the same way as Virginia, which is how cities like Phoenix keep expanding size-wise. They just take over some unincorporated area.

Well, I could be wrong about that as well, as I haven't found the time to delve into the detailed political organization of every state. My source on that was one of the economists who prepares official regional economic data for the US who was speaking of the difficulties they have in dealing with Virginia. My characterizations were his characterizations, but he was certainly speaking off the cuff at that time, rather than on the record. At the same time, I would have a very good level of confidence in Virginia and Hawaii being as they were characterized.

From Census Bureau reporting, it is that case that more than 60% of all Americans live inside the boundaries of an incorporated area, and that the rates in the West and Midwest are actually higher than those in the South and Northeast. In contrast, some 70% of residents in the Washington DC SMSA live outside the boundaries of any incorporated area. Northern VA is a major driver of that number.

Originally Posted by pcity

That was deep, man.

Yeah, there are lots of cosmic things about NoVa...

[Denton56]

There are no homes available in Vienna for $350,000. sorry. I would be surprised if you could find any homes, in relatively safe neighborhoods, for that amount in the Falls Church, McLean, Vienna areas.

Have you tried Trulia - Real Estate, Homes For Sale, Sold Properties, Real Estate Maps ? You can search for homes by area there.