Whaddya think about our situation? (Arlington, Manassas: middle-class, for sale by owner, real estate)

[PalmettoGuy]

Okay, so I know this is probably similar to many previous posts, but rather than search for a thread that matches my specifics, I'm gonna throw this out and hope some of you NOVA and DC locals can help us on this one.

I've got a couple interviews with the federal Justice Dept. in downtown DC. If I get a job, at most it will pay around $80K to $85K. My wife and I have three kids, ages 15 mo. to 2nd grade. Currently, she does not work outside the home, and we'd like to keep it that way. She is an RN, so she could find work if necessary, but we'd like for her to do part-time at most. We have home schooled in the past and could do it again if our income can't get us in a good school district.

My question: On $85K for a family of 5, can we afford to live in a safe, middle-class neighborhood within a 1-hour total commute (average, at peak commute times). If $85K won't do it, what would we have to earn? Or, how far out would we have to live?

Thanks for any input. I'm trying to decide if it's even worth it to interview for this.

[Mike From NIU]

Palmetto,

It depends on your classification of middle class. My gut says yes, you can do it. I am a proponent of Woodbridge, and you can find some good things in this area. There is also a strong homeschooling community here.

Commute of a hour each way is tight but manageable, depending on where in DC you will work and how far in Woodbridge you live. If you will work near 14th St or a stop off of the yellow line, you can take PRTC bus or slug and make it to your job in 50-60 minutes each way. Woodbridge also has a lot more reasonable housing, and you could probably buy (if you have some down payment money) right away or within a year.

My family (2 kids, third on the way) is doing just fine on 60K, saving up money for a down payment, and plan on purchasing in the next year or two. We'll buy a starter home, to be sure, but that's fine because we're just starting out. If, however, you want a dreamhouse on $85K, you need to rethink your definition of middle class. (don't mean to offend you, but there's been people here referring to anything but giant new construction as crapshacks, yet wanting their champagne on beer budgets).

[fjennell]

Fredericksburg may be a good choice. (Spotsylvania County) you can find a decent home and good schools. There is a BIG demand for nurses in the area too so even if your wife does not work now, you would be in a place where she could in years to come. The commute is not that great but you have options - slugging (commuting with strangers) or the train.

[PalmettoGuy]

Thanks for the pointers. At the risk of dumping too much info on folks, I'll clarify some points. By "middle class," I mean that I'm fine with living in a big, beige, vinyl box with a smidgen of grass between it and the nearest vinyl box. We would just be looking for a community with other couples in their 20s and 30s with lots of kids in the neighborhood, you know -- other families starting out. I don't want to be around the corner from the next drug deal or gang shootout, though. Currently, we live in a 3 br, 2.5ba, 1700 sf "cluster home." We'd be fine with something like that. Also, we don't have to have brand new, and we may start out renting. Not sure. Right now, no car payments and no credit card debt. Do have a student loan payment.

Also, I would be working in the RFK building, on Penn Ave. (I think).

[Mike From NIU]

Originally Posted by PalmettoGuy

Thanks for the pointers. At the risk of dumping too much info on folks, I'll clarify some points. By "middle class," I mean that I'm fine with living in a big, beige, vinyl box with a smidgen of grass between it and the nearest vinyl box. We would just be looking for a community with other couples in their 20s and 30s with lots of kids in the neighborhood, you know -- other families starting out. I don't want to be around the corner from the next drug deal or gang shootout, though. Currently, we live in a 3 br, 2.5ba, 1700 sf "cluster home." We'd be fine with something like that. Also, we don't have to have brand new, and we may start out renting. Not sure. Right now, no car payments and no credit card debt. Do have a student loan payment.

Also, I would be working in the RFK building, on Penn Ave. (I think).

If you were to work at the RFK, you could definitely slug or take the PRTC (you could drive, too, but other options are less expensive and much less stressful).

As far as home, there are plenty of homes in the Woodbridge/Lake Ridge area that fit your description. I would check out homesdatabase.com for home rentals in the 22191-22193 zip codes. We just moved out here in May, and had a really great real estate agent who drove us around to show us the ropes. I would be happy to give you her name if you want it.

One word of warning. I don't know where you live now, but I moved from central Illinois (and grew up in Georgia). My wife and I were surprised at how prevalent townhomes (THs) are in NoVA. In some areas TH communities seem to make up 60-70% of the housing stock. Where I grew up, townhomes were a much smaller part of the housing market and were more or less intended to hold you over until you could afford a "real" house. In NoVA, THs are a permanent way of living and are priced accordingly. Lake Ridge (22192) has a lot of THs, while "old" Woodbridge 22191 has a lot more SFHs.

I think it's definitely worth an interview, with a few extra days (if possible) to look in a couple of areas with a good real estate agent. The federal government does have great benefits (and you may qualify for student loan repayment), and job security is virtually guaranteed. Those are very attractive features for young families.

Good luck.

[claremarie]

The median family income in Fairfax and Prince William Counties is between $82-100K per year, depending upon whose statistics you use, so your projected income puts you squarely in the middle of the pack. Your willingness to homeschool and to endure a somewhat lengthy commute allows you to consider areas such as Manassas, which has plenty of more affordable single-family homes. There are a lot of young families there, and many of them homeschool.

[irisheyes13]

Not sure what your price range for renting or buying is but you might be able to find something closer in;especially if you are open to town home living. As Mike from NIU mentioned, they are very common (and popular) here. We moved here a year ago and live in a townhouse in area code 22315. There are tons of kids from new born to high school on my block. I would try to keep my commute as reasonable as possible so you can spend some time with your family.
I would suggest you look around the outside of the city metro areas or commuter lots with "slug lines" which may be a good option for you. Here are a few websites to look around. The first one has rentals as well as for sale by owner. The others are commuting sites.


MilitarybyOwner.com - Real Estate near U.S. Military Bases
Metro - Homepage
Slug Lines
Slug-Lines.com - Slugging and Slug Lines Information For Washington DC

[CaseyMac]

I want to second Irisheyes regarding moving closer in. Prince William County (where Woodbridge is) has many attractive features to it, but a good commute is not one. Many people faithfully commute in from PW to Arlington and DC, but wow.... People have different commuting backbones, I know mine is quite short (inside Beltway). But just for the sake of conversation, if someone told me I could live a TH inside the Beltway in a safe area versus a SFH in a safe area further out, I'd take the TH sight unseen practically!

Traffic is a beast here and should not be underestimated by any stretch of the imagination. After 30 minutes, each 5 minute increment will feel like 20. I know some may say I am overreacting, but keep in mind I'm single and young, so I don't have any home responsibilities and I know I'd be exhausted doing the Woodbridge run each day. So please see if there is a way you can come here for a weekend and just scout around. Columbus Day is coming up, maybe you have that Monday off. Come up here and just go around and see what feels good to you. But bottom line, exhaust every option to stay as close to or inside the Capital Beltway!!!!

Best of luck to you.

[Yankeesfan]

My inclination is to say go for it. A Justice Department job is great experience. It's an excellent credential if you decide to go into the private sector, or you can earn a good pension if you stay in the federal government. Federal government benefits are very good, including health insurance, and you can probably get a transit subsidy of some kind. You could find a nice townhouse in a nice child-friendly neighborhood. Virginia is homeschool-friendly, and Fairfax County has a great library system that could help reduce your homeschool expenses if you decide to go that route, but also for the most part highly-rated schools. If you have an idea of how much you'd want to spend on rent we could probably point you toward some neighborhoods in that range and you could evaluate whether you like the neighborhood choices and the commuting distance.

[PalmettoGuy]

Thanks for all the replies; they've been helpful. So far, it sounds like people think $85K is doable for us. We're not really opposed to a TH, so that is an option. And we would definitely prefer to keep the commute as short as possible. The main concern is to have a safe, family-friendly place to live.

As far as target rent goes . . . we currently live in a relatively small town in NE Ohio. Here, housing is cheap and we pay about 21% of gross income on rent. In NOVA, if we upped the percentage to 33% that would put us at $2300-2500 per month.