Do you consider Virginia to be part of "The South"? (Richmond: live, wealthy)

[back2dc]

how old is this map? based on the way they include NoVa as part of the south it may have been drawn in the post-WW2 area, before all the growth in the DC area.

Originally Posted by Bobilee

And when did I say that? I said there is a difference between WV/VA and OH/PA. Not only in accent, but self-identity, religion, ethnicity, etc. As one example, this is the Telsur dialect map from the Univ. of PA.

[back2dc]

my two cents -- if you're driving up the 11+hours from Atlanta to DC, you start to notice the change from southern to northern in the topography, foliage and the overall "look" of buildings, highway signage/construction, at the intersection of I-85 and I-95 in Petersburg.

on the way down south, you begin to notice you're leaving the "north" when you get around fredericksburg.

overall this "perception" to me is relative on which direction you're driving. but overall, dc metro more and more feels like a northern city.

[Bobilee]

Hi, back2dc. I believe the map is fairly current. Here is a link to the Telsur page, it has a lot more than the South to it. Phonological Atlas of North America

[sirbeaubeau]

If the OP meant, "Is Virginia in the south?" Meaning part of the confederacy, then yes it is/was. Was Maryland? No. It was taken by the Union - as a propaganda tool to show force. But Maryland's tendencies bent towards southern alliances. When people ask me the same question about Maryland (I'm originally from there) I tell them it wasn't North or South, it was the battle field. Then I get a free drink for being so smarmy. P.S. - I agree with everyone's opinion about NOVA not being southern anymore, it's all one big Mctacoexxon7eleven.

[05c6400]

Any place north of Fredericksburg, VA is considered Yankee territory. Venture further south and you will see less of culture mixes…

*NOTE - Blacksburg and Charlottesville have a good culture mix because of VA Tech and UVA.

[irvine]

I'm a DC native and I grew up in both DC and Northern Virginia, and I do consider myself Southern. There are many others that do as well.

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

Most of the state was divided, with Southern sympathizers strongest on the Shore and the southern region. The war had a tremendous impact on the state, but I think it goes beyond that. Either way, Southern pride is not confined exclusively to the Civil War or Confederate flags, and Maryland just seems to downplay that part of its heritage it as much as possible. But it shares history from both sides (North & South), which is just fine.

I don't believe Maryland tries to downplay it, although certain people may.
The state song which was written during the war, and the various Confederate monuments in towns throughout the state (Rockville, Ellicott City, Easton, etc), the most impressive of which are in Baltimore, certainly do not hide the state's role in the Civil War.

Concerning the UPenn Phonological Atlas, I disagree with where it places the extent of Southern dialects within Maryland. The Virginia Piedmont dialect, the native dialect in most of Maryland does in fact reach just north of Baltimore. And the Baltimore variant of the Virginia Piedmont dialect, while it may share a few linguistic traits with Philadelphia, IS Southern: e.g. flattened vowels: long i before r in words like tire, the oi diphthong, etc

Also unique to the Virginia Piedmont dialect especially around Richmond and Washington, DC is the ou diphthong in words like house and about, which may sound slightly Canadian to those not familiar with local speech patterns.

The local Southern dialect is fading in the DC area, but that could have been argued decades ago. What many younger locals in the area speak today is a watered down version of "American Southern" and, of course, the majority probably have no perceptible "accent" at all. I'd venture to say that the dialect is much more widely spoken in parts of Montgomery, Howard and PG Counties and in Southern Maryland, than in Northern Virginia, which was certainly the case in the 90s, when I was growing up. I had friends who grew up in Greenbelt and spoke with a very strong "Southern accent," much stronger than mine.

NPR had a good discussion about 8 years ago on whether or not DC is still culturally Southern. I'd say it is, if it wasn't there wouldn't have been much of a discussion. So yeah, Maryland, DC, and Virginia are part of the South.

[The_Fairfaxian]

Originally Posted by TrekRockStar

100 %, NOVA is still clinging to those old native roots that made it a memorable place in the past.

Unfortunately my race never had the fullest opportunity to enjoy it becuase of the state's narrow-mindness but I will not go on a tangent.

Maybe the historical monuments, but nothing else about Northern VA is remotely Southern about it! Now if one wants to talk about the "New South," Northern VA can definitely qualify. And if you want to talk about "racial atmosphere," Maryland approaches and handles it more "old southernly style w/ Northeast tendencies" when it comes to that, while Northern Virginia handles it more like the West (specifically San Diego).

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by irvine

I'm a DC native and I grew up in both DC and Northern Virginia, and I do consider myself Southern. There are many others that do as well.



I don't believe Maryland tries to downplay it, although certain people may.
The state song which was written during the war, and the various Confederate monuments in towns throughout the state (Rockville, Ellicott City, Easton, etc), the most impressive of which are in Baltimore, certainly do not hide the state's role in the Civil War.

Concerning the UPenn Phonological Atlas, I disagree with where it places the extent of Southern dialects within Maryland. The Virginia Piedmont dialect, the native dialect in most of Maryland does in fact reach just north of Baltimore. And the Baltimore variant of the Virginia Piedmont dialect, while it may share a few linguistic traits with Philadelphia, IS Southern: e.g. flattened vowels: long i before r in words like tire, the oi diphthong, etc

Also unique to the Virginia Piedmont dialect especially around Richmond and Washington, DC is the ou diphthong in words like house and about, which may sound slightly Canadian to those not familiar with local speech patterns.

The local Southern dialect is fading in the DC area, but that could have been argued decades ago. What many younger locals in the area speak today is a watered down version of "American Southern" and, of course, the majority probably have no perceptible "accent" at all. I'd venture to say that the dialect is much more widely spoken in parts of Montgomery, Howard and PG Counties and in Southern Maryland, than in Northern Virginia, which was certainly the case in the 90s, when I was growing up. I had friends who grew up in Greenbelt and spoke with a very strong "Southern accent," much stronger than mine.

NPR had a good discussion about 8 years ago on whether or not DC is still culturally Southern. I'd say it is, if it wasn't there wouldn't have been much of a discussion. So yeah, Maryland, DC, and Virginia are part of the South.

What I said about Maryland is based off my experience. But you're definitely right in what you say.

That map is also bogus. Most of these maps brought up are bogus.

[waltlantz]

I live in Mount Vernon, have all my 20 years of life.

Fairfax County definetly aint Southern. Although we have many historical landmarks (so no-one can say that load that we are denying our history).

We are Mid Atlantic. Same with Alexandria and Arlington.

Hell, Those 3 along with most of Prince Wiliam and Loudon counties are Mid-Atlantic.

Once you hit the Rappahanock River and points east, west, and definetly south then you hit Dixie VA. Particularly south of Fredricksburg.

For the record, I consider myself a Washington suburbanite or a suburban Washingtonian or simply from the DC area. Not really a Virginian all though by all accounts I am. NoVa is it's own little region, it's core Washington suburbs prolly haven't been southern scince 60s, the Mid Atlantic feel has just expanded scince then.

I'm not one of those wignuts who pushes for seccesion however

[KeyserSoze]

^ Never said that Virginia, or Northern Virginia in particular, denied their history. And I personally think that the south-of-Fredericksburg, across-the-Rappahannock is a big load.