Top Private Elementary/Middle School (McLean, Fairfax: home, top school, camp)

[Denton56]

Here's the link with the admission data on TJ for this current school year.
FCPS - News Releases
You will need to click on the link on the bottom of the page. You will see that they admitted 15 students from Prince William, 1 from Fauquier, 51, from Loudoun, etc. Also interesting, more Asians were admitted, 45% of the class, than whites, who were 42% of the incoming class. To me, that's a good sign. It shows that they are admitting based on merit, without regard to race.

[EMTnest]

I am NOT making my child do this, he is doing it on his own. I encouraged him to not take the test and it was not a big deal to lose out on the application fee but he insisted. My fear is that underneath it all, he wants to attend (no matter what he says). He would be fine at TJ as he is math/science driven. Frankly, I couldn't care less if he got accepted or not as his sibling did not attend TJ and did just fine (received full rides at several universities).

And yes, I agree with you it is MUCH easier to be the smartest kid in a base school for college purposes. There is a TJ graduate at my other child's college, she only received a partial scholarship while my child received a full scholarship --- their scores/gpa/courseload etc. are comparable -- what was the difference? I believe it was their respective ranking at their HS. I know TJ doesn't rank but the guidance counselor has to check off where in the class they are. And I know many TJ kids ending up at UVA. I think to myself, why spend four years of a long commute when you can accomplish that at the base school? And yes, sibling got accepted there also.

[EMTnest]

As for the recommendations and the rest of application -- his teachers are eager to write them so it is not a very difficult process for him. His only tough choice is who will write his "other" recommendation as he has several to chose from. From this TJ process, I can see that he will be very proactive with his college applications versus his sibling who took forever to get all the paperwork together! And this is a very good thing!!

I posted on this issue in answer to several postings earlier about why apply/turning down TJ and why would you do such a thing!! People can't believe that anyone would turn down an acceptance to TJ. There are many reasons including the commute as well as the competition for college scholarships/acceptances. TJ is a great school but you will be competing against equally bright kids all wanting the same scholarship/college acceptances and schools can only take so many from each HS. It will not give you the advantage that most parents think will come their way for just attending TJ -- you also have to excel there.

[Not a rmember]

I came across the site by chance. All are very interesting comments. My two cents worth:
1. I do not understand why we need statistics on race if it is merit-based.
2. Why couldn’t we have more TJs if there are needs for advanced learning? It is a good thing that our children want to learn more. If we do not want to leave any child behind, we should not hamper any child's advanced learning either. When we put a child in a classroom to learn what she or he has already known, aren’t we robbing the child’s life by wasting her or his time? Public schools should provide opportunities for children of every tax payer, right?
3. Each child is unique; why shouldn’t we provide our children with different levels of learning environments/schools/classes. After all, we do not want our children to go to a learning environment that is beyond his or her current learning level (the child should not feel overwhelmed or not challenged).
4. Some children are more ambitious than others (hopefully they are the children’s ambitions, not their parents’). That is what makes the world interesting: different kinds of people (not based on race but based on characteristics of each human race).
5. School learning is only one of the life skills. It is not the only indication of a child’s future success. Some children learn faster than others, and some are more motivated to work hard than others. There should not be any labels attached. There should be only different levels of learning.
6. Not all black are alike; not all white are alike; … … It is really not fair to stereotype people based on race or ethnicity.
All the best.

[Denton56]

I totally agree on the race issue, but try to tell that to FCPS. They are VERY big on race. Almost every year staff addresses the ''problem'' of not enough blacks at TJ and in GT centers. They have changed admission procedures, numerous times, since 1997. That year they had to stop practicing blatant affirmative action that year because the school system was sued. They lost the suit and over that summer they had to admit 27 white and Asian students who were denied admission because of their race. Since then they have tried desperately to get more Blacks into TJ. That's why the first cut of kids is 1,700, instead of the 800 accepted into that pool in the past. By admitting more to the pool, they hope to find more Black students to admit. It hasn't worked yet, but they have not given up hope. The three special programs over the last 10 years to tutor Blacks and Hispanics to prepare them for the TJ test hasn't helped either. This Spring yet another committee is being set up to look at admission procedures yet again.

Yes, over 120 kids from TJ go to UVA each year from TJ. The reason is a common one, UVA is a great school for the money. Most TJ kids are not wealthy enough to afford the Ivies and they often get a free ride at UVA, Tech, and/or William and Mary. As you know, the Ivies don't give merit money, only needs based money, and they actively practice affirmative action which does nothing for middle class whites and Asians at TJ. UVA is the best public school in the nation, why shouldn't TJ kids go there, particularly if they can go there for free? After that, they can go to any grad school, and usually paid to do it.

Unless your son's entire peer group in Prince William is going to TJ, and he will have no peer group at his base school, I wouldn't bother. It's just not worth it to have to commute that far. But I suppose that advice is too late now.

The only students I have known who have turned down TJ were two girls, two different years. In both cases, their peer group was going to the base school, and they didn't want to leave their friends. Of course before knowing who was going to be accepted, they had no way of knowing that their friends would not be going to TJ. So they lost the money, and the time and effort of applying, but their peer group was just too important to them. They were not Asian, and their parents did not insist that they attend TJ.

I am sure there are other reasons why someone would go to all the effort of applying to TJ, taking the test, doing all the second round stuff, and then turn down acceptance, but I've not heard of any of those reasons.

I'm sure there are people turn down Ivy league schools too.

Oh wait, I have one of those kids! He chose UVA instead and never regretted it. Could he have gotten into UVA without going to TJ? Of course. But the base school would never have been the right high school for him. He loved TJ, took every advanced math, science, and computer course available. Even better, ALL of his friends (all Asian) went to TJ too. Loved UVA too, with many of those same friends. For some kids, the TJ environment is perfect. One of my kids fit that bill, others did not.

To each his own.

[EMTnest]

My child knows we support him 100% in whichever HS he goes to including our base or any of the other specialty programs that is offered in Pr. Wm. You make it sound like it is such a long and hard process for TJ -- it hasn't for him. He did not study for the test and his part of the application has been submitted already. Other than the four hours spent at the testing site, I would guess he spent less than half an hour on the entire process. Will he get in or not -- it doesn't matter as he is feeling great that he made the semi-finals cut.

You may know of two who didn't go (a very good reason - it was the same reason why my oldest child didn't bother to take the test) but I know of two who went to TJ and had to dropped out. Their chances to their dream school was smashed as it didn't look good on their transcript that they couldn't hack it at TJ plus their grades were not so hot. Their dream school was UVA. Would they have gotten in if they stayed at their base school -- my answer would be yes. They would not have undergone what they went through and their grades would not have been so mediocre. I have heard so much about TJ via their parents the good and the bad. Thank goodness they are doing well at the colleges they went to and they plan on trying to transfer into UVA.

As for the racial make-up of the school, I agree with you. They keep changing their process to increase the diversity of the school and I don't think it will work. I don't have the answers to these problems but I feel that education is not stressed as important as other issues. I can't count how many times kids will come to school with their Ipods, cell phones and expensive clothing but not have a single writing instrument or paper with them. They can afford to buy the "toys" but what about stuff for school? I can't tell you how much I have spent on basic school supplies (pencils, paper, notebooks etc.) each school year as you can't let the student sit there with nothing to write with or write on.

As for Asian parents, perhaps they need to be educated on the fact that just because their kids attend TJ, it doesn't mean that they will automatically attend Harvard or the other Ivies! Listening to the discussions around me while waiting for our child to come out of the test room, that idea is being spread around and reinforced. They want what is best for their child and TJ is the best so they want their child to go to TJ. Unfortunately in the college process you need more than just great test scores, a high GPA and a great HS.

UVA is a GREAT school and a GREAT bargain for in-state students. My eldest would have thrived at UVA and all her friends are thriving there. The choice to take the scholarship at an OOS school was her choice (as she knew her college fund would cover UVA). Our feelings were that if she went to UVA, it would a continuation of HS again as all her friends were accepted there. We were very surprised that she decided not to go to UVA and frankly, I was worried that there would be regret about the decision. Knock on wood, she loves it at her school and has a great circle of new friends.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by Denton56

I totally agree on the race issue, but try to tell that to FCPS. They are VERY big on race. Almost every year staff addresses the ''problem'' of not enough blacks at TJ and in GT centers. They have changed admission procedures, numerous times, since 1997. That year they had to stop practicing blatant affirmative action that year because the school system was sued. They lost the suit and over that summer they had to admit 27 white and Asian students who were denied admission because of their race. Since then they have tried desperately to get more Blacks into TJ. That's why the first cut of kids is 1,700, instead of the 800 accepted into that pool in the past. By admitting more to the pool, they hope to find more Black students to admit. It hasn't worked yet, but they have not given up hope. The three special programs over the last 10 years to tutor Blacks and Hispanics to prepare them for the TJ test hasn't helped either. This Spring yet another committee is being set up to look at admission procedures yet again.

Yes, over 120 kids from TJ go to UVA each year from TJ. The reason is a common one, UVA is a great school for the money. Most TJ kids are not wealthy enough to afford the Ivies and they often get a free ride at UVA, Tech, and/or William and Mary. As you know, the Ivies don't give merit money, only needs based money, and they actively practice affirmative action which does nothing for middle class whites and Asians at TJ. UVA is the best public school in the nation, why shouldn't TJ kids go there, particularly if they can go there for free? After that, they can go to any grad school, and usually paid to do it.

Unless your son's entire peer group in Prince William is going to TJ, and he will have no peer group at his base school, I wouldn't bother. It's just not worth it to have to commute that far. But I suppose that advice is too late now.

The only students I have known who have turned down TJ were two girls, two different years. In both cases, their peer group was going to the base school, and they didn't want to leave their friends. Of course before knowing who was going to be accepted, they had no way of knowing that their friends would not be going to TJ. So they lost the money, and the time and effort of applying, but their peer group was just too important to them. They were not Asian, and their parents did not insist that they attend TJ.

I am sure there are other reasons why someone would go to all the effort of applying to TJ, taking the test, doing all the second round stuff, and then turn down acceptance, but I've not heard of any of those reasons.

I'm sure there are people turn down Ivy league schools too.

Oh wait, I have one of those kids! He chose UVA instead and never regretted it. Could he have gotten into UVA without going to TJ? Of course. But the base school would never have been the right high school for him. He loved TJ, took every advanced math, science, and computer course available. Even better, ALL of his friends (all Asian) went to TJ too. Loved UVA too, with many of those same friends. For some kids, the TJ environment is perfect. One of my kids fit that bill, others did not.

To each his own.

Which base school for your son were you referring to?

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by tankdude

Which base school for your son were you referring to?

If you have read Denton's posts on living la vida loca in the Town of Vienna, you will deduce that the answer is Madison. She is not knocking Madison, but only emphasizing that her son was a math/science nerd (in a good way) who thrived best surrounded by others with similar interests and skills.

I certainly am not advocating quotas at TJ by any stretch, but I think it will be interesting to see what happens in the future to both the applicant pool at TJ and the profile of admitted students as it becomes increasingly Asian. I have non-Asian friends with children now at TJ; their parents really had to work hard to convince them that they could compete with the Asian kids whose families were so very intensely focused on their academic success. It may be that, over time, the non-Asian applicant pool declines; on the other hand, if the economy continues to tank, even more parents may want their kids to attend TJ in the hope that they'll have a more secure economic future.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

If you have read Denton's posts on living la vida loca in the Town of Vienna, you will deduce that the answer is Madison. She is not knocking Madison, but only emphasizing that her son was a math/science nerd (in a good way) who thrived best surrounded by others with similar interests and skills.

I certainly am not advocating quotas at TJ by any stretch, but I think it will be interesting to see what happens in the future to both the applicant pool at TJ and the profile of admitted students as it becomes increasingly Asian. I have non-Asian friends with children now at TJ; their parents really had to work hard to convince them that they could compete with the Asian kids whose families were so very intensely focused on their academic success. It may be that, over time, the non-Asian applicant pool declines; on the other hand, if the economy continues to tank, even more parents may want their kids to attend TJ in the hope that they'll have a more secure economic future.

Sorry, I'm not deducing anything because I don't really keep track of the history of each individual who posts here. It's not even "low" on my priority list.

In my humble opinion, it would be silly to think that getting into TJ somehow translates to "a more secure economic future." Just attending any school is not enough. You have to produce and do well and make the most of the opportunity.

These kids are getting high school diplomas, not college/professional degrees. I didn't know there was a feeder network directly from TJ to investment banks, law firms, lobby firms, and technology companies.

Also, with regard to EMTnest's statement about Asian parents needing to be educated on how their kids should best be prepared to get into the best schools, I think those parents have done their homework and believe that TJ will help their kids. You can't believe every conversation that you eavesdrop on.

In the same regard, white parents should be educated in not to waste their time and money when they force their 3-5-7 year olds to football, soccer, hockey, baseball, basketball, gynamistics, and lacrosse camps because most of their kids are either not really interested, or probably suck very bad at sports. They are most likely not going to be the next Joe Montana, David Beckham/Mia Hamm, Wayne Gretzky, Larry Bird/Sue Bird, Babe Ruth/Jenny Finch, or Tim Dagget/Mary Lou Retton.

[Denton56]

Yes, Madison was our base school and that time it did not offer any math beyond AP calculus, nor did it offer AP Physics or AP computer science, much less the computer courses beyond that one, all were courses that my TJ child loved. Madison is not a bad school, it's a neighborhood school, in all the good ways. It's a great school for most students, although lately there seems to be too little emphasis on academics. Madison would not have worked for my TJ son because of academics and because ALL of his friends went to TJ. Being a shy child, entering Madison with no friends, and few if any academic peers, it would have been very difficult for him.

I am VERY big on keeping the main thing, the main thing, and keeping schools focused on academics.

I will never support quotas at TJ, even if it were to become 100% Asian. If those are the children who belong there, who need those very advanced math and science courses, and are willing to do the work that it takes, so be it. Those things should be what TJ is about, regardless of race.