U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-04-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Burke, VA
269 posts, read 898,918 times
Reputation: 103

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sssb2000 View Post
thanks guys.

the WH is new so i won't be replacing it anytime soon......

what I wanted to ask though....is 'how hard would it be for a professional electrician to install a simple switch (like a light switch) somewhere in the laundry room on the main level, that would turn the water heater ON and OFF!!!! this way, i could switch it off with a click of a botton in the morning before going to work, and switch it back on when i come back...and in a couple of hours, i'll have hot water...but i haven't wasted money maintaining the heated water ALL DAY for no reason!


thoughts?
The best way to prevent "standby energy lost" is to INSULATE your WH very very well. You can add one of those insulation jackets that you wrap around the tank.

Let's say you have a 50 gallon tank and flip off the switch in the morning, well then energy will STILL be lost as the tank cools down, and then when you turn it back on now you've got to re-heat the whole 50 gallons again. How in the world do you call this energy efficient??!

It is cheaper to maintain heated water at a stable temp., rather than re-heating wate that has cooled back up again. Please do your research.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-04-2009, 10:46 AM
 
106 posts, read 433,380 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skapov View Post
The best way to prevent "standby energy lost" is to INSULATE your WH very very well. You can add one of those insulation jackets that you wrap around the tank.

Let's say you have a 50 gallon tank and flip off the switch in the morning, well then energy will STILL be lost as the tank cools down, and then when you turn it back on now you've got to re-heat the whole 50 gallons again. How in the world do you call this energy efficient??!

It is cheaper to maintain heated water at a stable temp., rather than re-heating wate that has cooled back up again. Please do your research.
point well taken...HOWEVER, there is a threshhold......
for example....if you Maintain the water temp. for 30 days in a row, it doesn't mean you're being more efficient than say...heating the tank twice from scratch. (given that you taken only 2 showers every 30 days! :-)


now......let's try to figure out the break even point....is it 30 days? 10 days? 1 day? 12 hours? etc.

i guess we need to figure out how much energy (in KWH) is spent maintaining the WH temp. for 1 hour.
then we need to figure out how long it takes for a heated tank to cool down completely
then we need to figure out how many KWH are used to heat up a whole tank from scratch

then i'm sure we can make a much more educated guess.

Anyone familiar with hourly usage of a 50 gallon WH?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2009, 11:18 AM
 
734 posts, read 1,729,582 times
Reputation: 762
Again, it depends on the insulation. A simple H20 insulating wrap is cheap and will save more money than turning on and off the water heater.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: -
488 posts, read 1,583,444 times
Reputation: 103
Its is impossible to say which model is the best, tank or tankless without evaluating usage, size of the house and other factors.

Alternative to on/off switch would be a timer, that shuts it off for 8 hrs you are not at home, and turns it back on say an hour before you get home, so when you return you have full tank of hot water.

The whole idea of insulating water heaters makes me smile.
How could can this technology really be when it actually looses energy and you STILL HAVE TO BUY extra items to keep that water heater from cooling down.
No wonder they use tankless in Europe. Been doing it for decades actually.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2009, 11:34 AM
 
515 posts, read 1,506,441 times
Reputation: 234
Are you making sure all discretionary use of appliances is done off-hours? I never run the dishwasher or laundry during peak hours. I also now wash exclusively with cold water. This has made a noticeable difference.

Our home is somewhere between 3500 and 3800 sq feet (the appraisals vary and I never bothered to measure myself). Total gas and electric combined runs about $350 a month. It does sound like something isnt quite right at your place.

OTOH, maybe it's just that electric heat is ridiculously expensive. If gas is available in your neighborhood, it may be worth the price to do the conversion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2009, 11:38 AM
 
106 posts, read 433,380 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike From NIU View Post
Again, it depends on the insulation. A simple H20 insulating wrap is cheap and will save more money than turning on and off the water heater.
Mike,
I'll be sure to buy the H20 insulating wrap regardless of whatever else i will do....good idea.

BUT, what is the second part of your comment based on? any calculations or is it a best guess to say that it'll "save more money than turning on and off"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2009, 12:52 PM
 
734 posts, read 1,729,582 times
Reputation: 762
Well, I guess I am speaking from the point of view that if you turn on and off your water heater, you loose a lot more energy for the 8-10 hours it is off, and therefore have to use that much more energy when it turns on. Also, some items with constant monitoring systems such as water heaters could wear out more quickly with the spikes in electricity caused by turning on and off a switch. Replacing a water heater a few years before otherwise necessary could definitely offset most of your savings (if any) from cycling it on and off.

By the way, if your bill doesn't lower after the heat pump wiring is fixed, it might be worth it to spring for an energy audit. Spending $300 to find out what is causing such a massive bill might pay for itself within a year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2009, 06:25 PM
 
106 posts, read 433,380 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike From NIU View Post
Well, I guess I am speaking from the point of view that if you turn on and off your water heater, you loose a lot more energy for the 8-10 hours it is off, and therefore have to use that much more energy when it turns on. Also, some items with constant monitoring systems such as water heaters could wear out more quickly with the spikes in electricity caused by turning on and off a switch. Replacing a water heater a few years before otherwise necessary could definitely offset most of your savings (if any) from cycling it on and off.

By the way, if your bill doesn't lower after the heat pump wiring is fixed, it might be worth it to spring for an energy audit. Spending $300 to find out what is causing such a massive bill might pay for itself within a year.
Good idea. thanks very much Mike.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Maryville, TN
3 posts, read 9,903 times
Reputation: 10
Lightbulb Reduce Your Electric Bill

I think that my most recent article might help your situation. I will post it below.

As for my electric bill, I have a 2100 sq/ft rancher style split foyer that is all electric and the bill runs around $110 in summer or winter and around $75 in the spring and fall. I have 3 analog (no lcd's or plazma's) tv's the smallest being 32", 5 computers, central heat and air, wife that cooks and bakes at home almost every day, 1020 watt stereo and a 16 year old fridge that runs way more than it should.

You ask, how is this possible? I'll start with the fridge. A simple trick is to use gallon milk jugs just over half full of water. I have 4 in the fridge section and 4 in the freezer. This acts as a thermal battery. Yes, they take up some space but when placed to the back they only get in the way of some stuff that probably needs to be thrown out anyway. And a bonus of emergency water supply. Remember, clean in - clean out. I estimate that they roughly equally counteract the inefficiency of the old fridge. When I purchase a new fridge it will be of the chest style, ie; very very efficient.

Next on my list is the electronics. If it's not in use then turn it off. I even use multi outlet strips on groups or sets of electronics so that when they are not in use they are completely off (no parasitic draw). This does take a little getting used to, to make an effort to go to the strip and turn it off.

Next is the use of 2 cheap box fans that I use to circulate the cool air from the basement. Yes, It's a finished basement but being completely underground it stays a consistent 66 degrees without the fans running. This cools the house in the summer and warms the house in the winter all for about $10 a month for the electricity. Good ROI

As for the kitchen, I will paste my article here.:co ol:


Reduce Your Electric Bill
Reduce your electric bill through appliance specialization. Most people in the western world have any number of specialty appliances. Simple things like your toaster, basic microwave, counter top grill (like the George Foreman Grill), toaster oven, crock pot, and grandma's pressure cooker, to more advanced (or more expensive) things like your, rice maker, bread machine, counter top induction cook top hot plate and the convection microwave.


There are more but for the focus of this article I'll stick with the kitchen appliances. I include the pressure cooker (even though it's not an appliance) due to its efficiency enhancing qualities for the ol dinosaur cook stove. I use the term "dinosaur" due to its archaic power usage qualities. Yes, I know there are modern convection/steam oven w/induction cook top stoves that are as efficient as it gets but because they cost in the $4000.00 range they are out of the grasp of most folks or are more than most folks are willing to spend. Besides the fact that utilizing the fore mentioned appliances in an appropriate manner nets an even higher efficiency and you already have most of them tucked away in your cupboards.


For example lets take a look at the toaster. Have you ever seen someone making toast in the oven when there’s a toaster sitting on the counter? So then you have to ask “So, what’s wrong with the toaster?” You inevitably get a response something like “Oh, it needs to be cleaned” or “It’s not big enough” or “It’s too slow for this many servings”. Ok, then lets do the math. The average toaster is rated at around .5 kwh and the standard oven is rated at around 4.5 kwh. The toaster will toast 2 slices in about 1 minute. The oven will toast the 2 slices in about 3.5 min but you probably won’t use the oven for just 2 slices so lets base our numbers on 8 slices. Now, the same oven will toast the 8 slices in the same amount of time; 3.5 minutes. Note that the oven will need to be pre-heated for approximately 7 minutes. So now our oven is up to 10.5 minutes. The toaster on the other hand is at about 5 minutes for all 8 slices. Now lets look at the electrical usage. The oven is 4500w/60 minutes equals 75w per minute times 10.5 minutes equals 787.5 total watts. My local utility charges close to 10 cents per kwh so the oven is costing us $7.88. The toaster is 500w/60 minutes equal 8.333 watts per minute times 5 minutes equals 41.67 total watts. So the toaster is costing us 42 cents. Just 3 uses of the oven in this manner would pay for a new toaster. I hope I’ve made my point.


I could make the same point for every kitchen aid listed above and with a little effort (in dragging your kitchen aids from under the counter) you could save a proverbial ton of cash and as an added benefit have just that much less green house gasses to be released into the atmosphere. If your on the grid, that is. If you’re not on the grid then it is that much less stress, wear and tear on your wind solar system.


S. Alan
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2009, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Germany
49 posts, read 108,572 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEIK View Post

No wonder they use tankless in Europe. Been doing it for decades actually.
I live in Germany, we have have a tankless WH and I hate it! We have to run the water 10 minutes just to get it warm! Then, with water being so expensive here, I end up doing a lot of hand-washing and little rinses here and there with cold water.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top