Chesterbrook area of McLean - desirable? (Arlington, Leesburg: comparable sales, sale, townhouses)

[rarebucky]

There are a lot of new homes in this submarket that are very nice and in our price range. Anyone care to comment on the viability of purchasing here? I know schools are good, commute would be good for both of us...what are the pitfalls?

[JEB77]

If you can afford Chesterbrook, go for it. It's a beautiful area close to DC. If I were to stretch for "pitfalls," here's what I'd come up with:

1. Some of the roads aren't in particularly good condition compared to roads in newer parts of the county.

2. Some houses are on, or very close to, busy commuter roads such as Kirby and Old Dominion.

3. The Chesterbrook shopping center is somewhat dingy and dated. The Starbucks looks bigger than the local Safeway.

4. Some areas aren't pedestrian-friendly - i.e., no sidewalks, narrow streets.

5. Longfellow Middle - while a very high-performing school - is crowded and in mediocre physical condition, although it's scheduled for renovations soon.

6. You would probably end up on a waiting list for years before you'd get a membership to Chesterbrook Swim club or some of the neighboring facilities (unless, perhaps, a seller transfers his/her membership).

7. There are a lot of infill properties - so a new house may be next door to a smaller, dated split-level that isn't well-maintained. It makes it harder to determine the value of your property - there aren't as many obvious "comparables" in the neighborhood.

8. The lots are generally small compared to what you'd get for the same amount of money further out in Great Falls or Vienna.

9. Some believe that prices in McLean and North Arlington will come down substantially in the coming months; if you buy now, you may pay quite a bit more than someone buying six months from now or next year.

10. Your neighbors (or the parents of your children's classmates) may be Type As who still use 90s phrases like "granularity" when they just mean "more detail."

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by rarebucky

There are a lot of new homes in this submarket that are very nice and in our price range. Anyone care to comment on the viability of purchasing here? I know schools are good, commute would be good for both of us...what are the pitfalls?

Any pitfalls that you may uncover in the Chesterbrook area would be mild compared to living in the Marshall HS district in uber congested Vienna where the cons listed above apply also, but worse.

There, you'll always have a chip on your shoulder defending that district from perceived slights (whether real or mostly in your head) based on personal insecurities despite making a conscious decision to buy into there anyway knowing full well all the drawbacks.

Kind of silly if you think about it.

Can't be more granular than that.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by tankdude

Any pitfalls that you may uncover in the Chesterbrook area would be mild compared to living in the Marshall HS district in uber congested Vienna where the cons listed above apply also, but worse.

Chesterbrook has advantages compared to the portion of Vienna that feeds into Marshall, and vice versa, but in any event:

1. In general, the roads in the portion of Vienna that feeds into Marshall are wider and in better condition that the roads in the Chesterbrook area of McLean. For all I know, the local residents prefer this, as it gives some areas a quaint, rustic feel, but I'd much rather have a teenager driving a car on Beulah Road and the sidestreets in Vienna than on Old Dominion or some of the beautiful, but narrow, hilly streets in Franklin Park.

2. Some houses in the portion of Vienna that feed into Marshall are on or near busy commercial roads such as Gallows Road. Not too much difference there.

3. The shopping areas on Maple Avenue and on Route 7 generally are in better condition than the Chesterbrook shopping area - the OP would need to go to other parts of McLean closer to Tysons for a wider selection of newer shops.

4. Some parts of Vienna have sidewalks and are pedestrian-friendly; others are not particularly pedestrian-friendly. Not too much difference here, except there are more narrow roads in so-so condition in Chesterbrook. By the time the newer Vienna neighborhoods reach the same age as the Chesterbrook neighborhoods today, the roads may be in similar condition (and, by then, all the Chesterbrook roads may have been repaved, too). Right now, there are a lot of roads in the Chesterbrook area that could use some maintenance.

5. Kilmer is also a high-performing middle school that is quite crowded (over 1000 students), but was recently renovated.

6. The local swim clubs in Vienna also have long waiting lists.

7. There are a lot of infills in the town of Vienna, but not in the portions of Vienna that feed into Marshall. You may not like the houses that are there, and think they are all cookie-cutter McMansions (or worse), but it's probably easier to identify comparable sales.

8. The lot sizes in the neighborhoods in Vienna that feed into Marshall vary widely. Some are small, as in Tysons Chase (.15 acre); other lots in North Vienna are typically 1/2 or 1 acre, which is larger than the typical Chesterbrook lot of 1/4 to 1/3 acre. That shouldn't be a big surprise, since Chesterbrook is closer in and land is more expensive. This is a difference, not a criticism. Some folks like to have a large garden or to have a large lot for their kids to run around; others don't want to be bothered with high-maintenance yards or big lawn-care bills.

9. Quite a few posters on housing blogs have pointed out that, while prices in McLean and North Arlington have only recently started to decline, compared to other parts of the NoVa region where the price declines started earlier, they may decline quite a bit in these areas in the coming months. I don't know if this will happen or not, but it's a potential risk factor for the OP to consider.

10. No one in the uber-congested urban jungle that feeds into the Marshall HS district uses the word "granularity" - which contributes highly to its overall livability and quality of life.

The OP asked for information about the potential down-sides of living in Chesterbrook, not Vienna. If he asks what others consider to be 10 great things about the same neighborhood, I will try to oblige as well - as I mentioned in my original post, it's a great area.

[saganista]

Chesterbrook is a very nice area with few if any pitfalls, but like anywhere, it will depend on personal tastes. Like a good deal of neighboring North Arlington, the area was first built out in the 50's and early 60's. The original houses tended to have small rooms, small windows, much less closet space than is standard today, and no central a/c. A good number of these have been replaced, those remaining have been expanded and upgraded, and new homes have been built in. It's still a charming and older-feeling area with lots of mature trees, curves, hills, nooks, and crannies, and the population is generally diverse and upscale. Chesterbrook isn't as close to Tysons as some areas of McLean, but it is closer than some to Metro. The smallish local shopping center is easily supplemented via a quick trip to downtown McLean or downtown Falls Church. Trader Joe's (which some fancy) is near Kirby/Idylwood and Route-7.

[If anyone arrived via a search for information on Vienna, most of it here is actually about the unincorporated areas that lie between Vienna and Falls Church that happen to have a Vienna mailing address.]

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by saganista

Chesterbrook is a very nice area with few if any pitfalls, but like anywhere, it will depend on personal tastes. Like a good deal of neighboring North Arlington, the area was first built out in the 50's and early 60's. The original houses tended to have small rooms, small windows, much less closet space than is standard today, and no central a/c. A good number of these have been replaced, those remaining have been expanded and upgraded, and new homes have been built in. It's still a charming and older-feeling area with lots of mature trees, curves, hills, nooks, and crannies, and the population is generally diverse and upscale.

Good description, although the population is perhaps somewhat less diverse than most areas of Fairfax County (but, then again, almost all of Fairfax County is diverse compared to most other places).

Originally Posted by saganista

The smallish local shopping center is easily supplemented via a quick trip to downtown McLean or downtown Falls Church. Trader Joe's (which some fancy) is near Kirby/Idylwood and Route-7.

Downtown McLean is close to Chesterbrook; the Trader Joe's near Idylwood and Leesburg Pike would be a bit of a hike. North Arlington is close-by as well. The point is simply that the local Chesterbrook shopping center on Old Dominion is a bit dated and underwhelming for such an upscale area, compared to what's located in "downtown McLean" or, for that matter, on Maple Avenue.

Originally Posted by saganista

[If anyone arrived via a search for information on Vienna, most of it here is actually about the unincorporated areas that lie between Vienna and Falls Church that happen to have a Vienna mailing address.]

Yes, the town of Vienna (22180) is a different beast. The unincorporated areas I referenced include not only those between the town of Vienna and Falls Church to the east, but also those between the town of Vienna and Great Falls to the north.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Chesterbrook has advantages compared to the portion of Vienna that feeds into Marshall, and vice versa, but in any event:

1. In general, the roads in the portion of Vienna that feeds into Marshall are wider and in better condition that the roads in the Chesterbrook area of McLean. For all I know, the local residents prefer this, as it gives some areas a quaint, rustic feel, but I'd much rather have a teenager driving a car on Beulah Road and the sidestreets in Vienna than on Old Dominion or some of the beautiful, but narrow, hilly streets in Franklin Park.

2. Some houses in the portion of Vienna that feed into Marshall are on or near busy commercial roads such as Gallows Road. Not too much difference there.

3. The shopping areas on Maple Avenue and on Route 7 generally are in better condition than the Chesterbrook shopping area - the OP would need to go to other parts of McLean closer to Tysons for a wider selection of newer shops.

4. Some parts of Vienna have sidewalks and are pedestrian-friendly; others are not particularly pedestrian-friendly. Not too much difference here, except there are more narrow roads in so-so condition in Chesterbrook. By the time the newer Vienna neighborhoods reach the same age as the Chesterbrook neighborhoods today, the roads may be in similar condition (and, by then, all the Chesterbrook roads may have been repaved, too). Right now, there are a lot of roads in the Chesterbrook area that could use some maintenance.

5. Kilmer is also a high-performing middle school that is quite crowded (over 1000 students), but was recently renovated.

6. The local swim clubs in Vienna also have long waiting lists.

7. There are a lot of infills in the town of Vienna, but not in the portions of Vienna that feed into Marshall. You may not like the houses that are there, and think they are all cookie-cutter McMansions (or worse), but it's probably easier to identify comparable sales.

8. The lot sizes in the neighborhoods in Vienna that feed into Marshall vary widely. Some are small, as in Tysons Chase (.15 acre); other lots in North Vienna are typically 1/2 or 1 acre, which is larger than the typical Chesterbrook lot of 1/4 to 1/3 acre. That shouldn't be a big surprise, since Chesterbrook is closer in and land is more expensive. This is a difference, not a criticism. Some folks like to have a large garden or to have a large lot for their kids to run around; others don't want to be bothered with high-maintenance yards or big lawn-care bills.

9. Quite a few posters on housing blogs have pointed out that, while prices in McLean and North Arlington have only recently started to decline, compared to other parts of the NoVa region where the price declines started earlier, they may decline quite a bit in these areas in the coming months. I don't know if this will happen or not, but it's a potential risk factor for the OP to consider.

10. No one in the uber-congested urban jungle that feeds into the Marshall HS district uses the word "granularity" - which contributes highly to its overall livability and quality of life.

The OP asked for information about the potential down-sides of living in Chesterbrook, not Vienna. If he asks what others consider to be 10 great things about the same neighborhood, I will try to oblige as well - as I mentioned in my original post, it's a great area.

It seems that your sensitivity to me using the word "granularity" is almost as bad as your sensitivity to perceived slights on Marshall HS.

Again, that's your problem/insecurity, not mine. Get some help.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Downtown McLean is close to Chesterbrook; the Trader Joe's near Idylwood and Leesburg Pike would be a bit of a hike. North Arlington is close-by as well. The point is simply that the local Chesterbrook shopping center on Old Dominion is a bit dated and underwhelming for such an upscale area, compared to what's located in "downtown McLean" or, for that matter, on Maple Avenue.

The point that you are clearly missing is that a good possibility, maybe I'll go as far as to say a certainty, as to why that shopping center on Old Dominion is "a bit dated and underwhelming" in your opinion is because people who live in that area, and McLean in general, probably don't want any new or more retail development in their backyards.

Otherwise, those areas, including Dolley Madison in Downtown McLean, would turn into a visually obscene, obtrusive, and traffic choked mess like Maple Ave in Vienna.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone in McLean is having kittens because there's no Magruders, Popeyes, Amphora, Whole Foods, etc. to soften the mood and improve the ambiance while they are tending to their gardens, throwing a dinner party, or enjoying a quiet evening.

A simple explanation is that the people in McLean would probably not mind the "hike," yes, all 2 miles of a drive to the Whole Foods or Trader Joes on Leesburg Pike or Balducci's in downtown McLean rather than have people, including you, drive to their neighborhoods in Chesterbrook to spend their money in a big box store, carry on in a noisy bar, or stuff their faces with chili dogs in a former institution.

Property values are surely taking a hit in McLean because of the lack of this kind of retail.

[JEB77]

Originally Posted by tankdude

The point that you are clearly missing is that a good possibility, maybe I'll go as far as to say a certainty, as to why that shopping center on Old Dominion is "a bit dated and underwhelming" in your opinion is because people who live in that area, and McLean in general, probably don't want any new or more retail development in their backyards.

Otherwise, those areas, including Dolley Madison in Downtown McLean, would turn into a visually obscene and obtrusive mess like Maple Ave in Vienna.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone in McLean is having kittens because there's no Magruders, Popeyes, Amphora, Whole Foods, etc. to soften the mood and improve the ambiance while they are tending to their gardens, throwing a dinner party, or enjoying a quiet evening.

A simple explanation is that the people in McLean would probably not mind the "hike," yes, all 2 miles of a drive to the Whole Foods or Trader Joes on Leesburg Pike or Balducci's in downtown McLean rather than have people, including you, drive to their neighborhoods in Chesterbrook to spend your money in a big box store, or carry on in a noisy bar. Property values are surely taking a hit because of the lack of this kind of retail.

If I were to live in McLean, I would welcome an Amphora or a Magruders, and, if I were to live in Chesterbrook, I would prefer a Whole Foods or another more modern store to the old "Soviet Safeway" that is currently in the Chesterbrook shopping center. That's just my personal opinion. There's really no need for you to go ballistic at every turn and use it as an excuse to launch another attack on Vienna, Maple Avenue or Marshall HS. The OP asked about Chesterbrook, not Vienna, and he didn't ask about high schools at all.

Perhaps you speak for the entire McLean community, or perhaps you just speak for yourself. If McLean is so virulently anti-development, I suspect the local residents would not have permitted the sprawl, including the two McDonalds located just blocks apart, that exists in "downtown McLean" along Chain Bridge and Old Dominion Roads. Perhaps they also would have fought harder to preserve Evans Farm, rather than allow it to be turned into a closed-off "gated community" that turns its back on its McLean neighbors and is full of over-the-top townhouses (some now selling at quite a discount from their original sale prices).

I never suggested that it was a "hike" from the Chesterbrook area to "downtown McLean." However, the Trader Joe's and Whole Foods at Idylwood/Route 7 are more like 4.5 miles, not 2 miles, from some Chesterbrook neighborhoods. Of course, since your post suggests all that McLean residents consume is wine and cheese from Balducci's, as soft strands of music flutter in the breeze, it may be that proximity to other stores doesn't matter much.

To judge from your venom, one would never guess that my original post on this thread began by stating "If you can afford Chesterbrook, go for it." I'd hate to see how you'd react if someone actually suggested that the OP avoid the darn place.

[tankdude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

If I were to live in McLean, I would welcome an Amphora or a Magruders, and, if I were to live in Chesterbrook, I would prefer a Whole Foods or another more modern store to the old Safeway that is currently in the Chesterbrook shopping center. That's just my personal opinion. There's really no need for you to go ballistic at every turn and use it as an excuse to launch another attack on Vienna, Maple Avenue or Marshall HS. The OP asked about Chesterbrook, not Vienna, and he didn't ask about high schools at all.

I guess that's probably why you're better off in Vienna because there is an Amphora and Magruders to serve your exquisite tastes.

Again, there's a Balducci's in downtown McLean, nevermind a huge Giant, to serve people who don't want to drive across the world to the Whole Foods/Trader Joes off Leesburg Pike.

Originally Posted by JEB77

Perhaps you speak for the entire McLean community, or perhaps you just speak for yourself. If McLean is so virulently anti-development, I suspect the local residents would not have permitted the sprawl, including the two McDonalds located just blocks apart, that exists in "downtown McLean" along Chain Bridge and Old Dominion Roads. Perhaps they also would have preserved Evans Farm rather than have permitted it to be turned into a closed-off "gated community" that turns its back on its neighbors and is full of over-the-top townhouses.

No, I'm just speaking common sense. Try it, you may like it.

This sprawl that you talk about is in downtown McLean and not in Chesterbrook's backyard. In fact, this sprawl serves a lot of businesses including doctors and professional offices in that area.

No New Retail for Professional Park

Originally Posted by JEB77

I never suggested that it was a "hike" from the Chesterbrook area to "downtown McLean." However, the Trader Joe's is more like 4.5 miles, not 2 miles, from some Chesterbrook neighborhoods.

I didn't say you did. What you did say was that it's a "hike" to go from Chesterbrook to Leesburg Pike. That 4.5 miles is just far enough away to keep the noise from disturbing the quiet neighborhoods, but not far enough to require a slug line, nevermind a plane ticket.

Originally Posted by JEB77

To judge from your venom, one would never guess that my original post on this thread began by stating "If you can afford Chesterbrook, go for it." I'd hate to see how you'd react if someone actually suggested that the OP should avoid the darn place.

Unfortunately, this all started with your "playful" jab at me with the word "granularity."