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Old 08-27-2009, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Vienna
264 posts, read 852,194 times
Reputation: 107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
Amen. That might explain why our students are ranked so low in international competitions. Americans tolerate our schools teaching self esteem, sex ed, and cut and paste art, rather than real math, real history, real science, and real English.
I have to agree on a lot of this- I grew up in Europe- mostly in non English speaking schools but have parents that are American and Spanish so I grew up bilingual. When we moved to the US for my middle school, because of my record, I was considered an average student (I was more social meanwhile my siblings were bookworms so I guess I seemed average in comparison as well- my brother was actually bused to college classes since he was so advanced). My parents assumed I was average and agreed to put me in "7th grade" level - which meant remedial- I was bored and did mediocre- I got tested and they conservatively put me in the next level but not honors.. My grades then got a lot better in school.. I then had to fight my way into honors and ap since I saw my siblings on the honor roll and wondered why i couldn't take the same classes.. i had to battle quite a bit with counselors at TC Williams- I insisted they let me advance when they did not want to- i went from b student to a and b+.. From all this rambling I am saying my foundation in Europe was actually really good- so much so that everyone understated it when we came here- assuming average was US average which means remedial in the US public school system.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:00 AM
 
161 posts, read 497,702 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
And where the goal is to turn each kid into a civil servant, because their Socialist governments have killed off every other job.
Let's not forget that most European socialist countries have been around since the early 1900's. It took them almost 100 years to realize that it doesn't work. This is the reason most European countries and their citizens have shifted their ideology to the right(Conservative). Hence... Germany, Czech Republic and even France to name a few. At this very time, they are more right then we are as a nation. I guess with over 100 years of testing in Europe, it's not enough data to support this theory for our current administration.

As far as schools in Europe, the reason they excel is NOT because of gov't social programs. Teachers and school officials actually teach what is useful in today's society. Isn't it great if our schools would just teach Language/Reading/Writing/Arithmetic/Literature/History/Biology? I mean c'mon, Home Economics and Sex education? Do you really think these progressive educational classes they currently have at our schools is actually more useful in everyday life? All I have to point to is listen to the interviews of athletes, after a professional sports game? Can you believe they were college students? Even athletes with 4 year college degrees CAN"T EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH. It's a shame when most third world countries of the industrialize world, speak better English as a second language then our children do.

We need to pay our teachers. Get rid of non performers? Have stricter guidelines for teacher and student behaviour. Test our teachers, not just our students. But most importantly, HIRE GOOD TEACHERS. It seems like anyone with somewhat of a degree can get a teaching job here. It's unbelievable.

As far as jobs, I agree with you is because if many years of socialism. It's scary to think that our current administration is trying to take us down that road. I vote to send them all of them to Venezuela. I'll even throw a couple in for Cuba for the heck of it. I hear the weather is similiar to California.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. I need a cup of coffee.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:08 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 4,769,771 times
Reputation: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
How does that help your son learn more? What do the teachers do differently when there are more foreign kids in a class and how does that help your son to learn? What's the best race child for son to sit next to so that he will learn the most?
I think you may have read too much into the "learn more" part of his post.

But I do agree with him, if I ever have children I want them to be in a very diverse school as I was.

I'm African-American and I can remember being in a class with friends who were Caucasian American, Mexican, Honduran, Saudi Arabian, Somalian, Haitian, Belgian, Korean and even a friend who was mixed black and Japanese. Having 'foreign' kids in my class never hindered me from excelling academically (which I did) but more importantly it taught me skills that you just can't learn without being in a diverse setting. No matter how many lessons you're taught in school on diversity, you really can't learn it until you are in it.

When you get out into the 'real world' you realize how diverse this world really is and, to be frank, there are a lot of people who don't know how to respond to the diversity.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:27 AM
 
5,391 posts, read 7,200,377 times
Reputation: 2857
Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchu41 View Post
The fact that you weren't schooled here, answers your own question. Our school system is one of the worst in the civilized world. I recommend sending your children to be schooled in Europe where they actually teach reading/writing/Arithmetic/history/biology/literature, instead of sex education.
You do know that sex education is compulsory in most Western European schools, and available in those where it's not required? And for many countries, has been for decades?

Meanwhile, in England, where sex education is not required, they have one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:04 PM
 
161 posts, read 497,702 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
You do know that sex education is compulsory in most Western European schools, and available in those where it's not required? And for many countries, has been for decades?

Meanwhile, in England, where sex education is not required, they have one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy.
Please! No Liberal mumbo jumbo! NO-Spin. Did you actually go to school in Europe? Please look up progressive education and have a read for yourself. I don't know how shop class, Art copy-paste, Sex Education, PE, Home Economics and Drama classes can prepare oneself for the real world. It's a failed liberal policy! We only need to look at our inner city schools system. We spend more than any other country on education and school programs but only have low grades and illiteracy rates higher than any develop western society. We are owned by the UNIONS! My GOD, they're teaching our kids how to put on condoms and exploring homosexuality in the classroom. Unbelievable.

I recommend the OP to send their child to be schooled in Europe, or to a prestigeous private school that specialize in a fundamental back to basics cirriculum.
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Old 08-28-2009, 04:36 PM
 
715 posts, read 2,080,153 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo View Post
You do know that sex education is compulsory in most Western European schools, and available in those where it's not required? And for many countries, has been for decades?

Meanwhile, in England, where sex education is not required, they have one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy.
But if sex education was more available in the US, then some people wouldn't have an excuse to hang by the pool with 20 of their like-minded neighborhood friends during the middle of the work day, take their kids out for gourmet chili dogs in a family friendly dive bar, hide behind curtains, or troll blogs making silly comments.

Although, they'd be more likely to be helping Va's budget issues by actually holding a job and paying income taxes! What a concept!
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:01 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,926,820 times
Reputation: 1278
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540_804 View Post
I think you may have read too much into the "learn more" part of his post.

But I do agree with him, if I ever have children I want them to be in a very diverse school as I was.

I'm African-American and I can remember being in a class with friends who were Caucasian American, Mexican, Honduran, Saudi Arabian, Somalian, Haitian, Belgian, Korean and even a friend who was mixed black and Japanese. Having 'foreign' kids in my class never hindered me from excelling academically (which I did) but more importantly it taught me skills that you just can't learn without being in a diverse setting. No matter how many lessons you're taught in school on diversity, you really can't learn it until you are in it.

When you get out into the 'real world' you realize how diverse this world really is and, to be frank, there are a lot of people who don't know how to respond to the diversity.
What does that mean? A white programmer might not know how to discuss programming with Black programmer if they didn't go to the same school? Or grow up in the same neighborhood? Or a Black Bank Manager couldn't manage people Asians if he didn't grow up with them? Really? I've never seen that to be a problem.

There are some things, from some cultures, that I don't think anyone needs to learn. There's a reason why some cultures are more successful than others. We need to take the successful parts and ignore the other, less successful, parts.

I am glad that your diverse school didn't "hinder" you academically. Some parents hope for a bit more, like cultural diversity that actually supports academics. For many parents, that's why they send their children to school, for the academics, regardless of the race or country of origin of the other students. TJ is a good example of that. Lots of Asian diversity, (54% of students) Chinese, Korean, Indian, Pakistani, Japanese, etc, ALL supporting challenging academics. That's what parents look for, strong academics and students who support that. Peers matter. Parents want their kids in classes with other kids who care about academics and grades. That's why parents of white kids still want their kids to go to TJ, even though they are a minority.

You can download TJ stats at the link on this page:
FCPS - News Releases
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:09 PM
 
715 posts, read 2,080,153 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
What does that mean? A white programmer might not know how to discuss programming with Black programmer if they didn't go to the same school? Or grow up in the same neighborhood? Or a Black Bank Manager couldn't manage people Asians if he didn't grow up with them? Really? I've never seen that to be a problem.

There are some things, from some cultures, that I don't think anyone needs to learn. There's a reason why some cultures are more successful than others. We need to take the successful parts and ignore the other, less successful, parts.

I am glad that your diverse school didn't "hinder" you academically. Some parents hope for a bit more, like cultural diversity that actually supports academics. For many parents, that's why they send their children to school, for the academics, regardless of the race or country of origin of the other students. TJ is a good example of that. Lots of Asian diversity, (54% of students) Chinese, Korean, Indian, Pakistani, Japanese, etc, ALL supporting challenging academics. That's what parents look for, strong academics and students who support that. Peers matter. Parents want their kids in classes with other kids who care about academics and grades. That's why parents of white kids still want their kids to go to TJ, even though they are a minority.

You can download TJ stats at the link on this page:
FCPS - News Releases
And TJ needs white kids because otherwise, they couldn't field several sports teams...such as track, football, crew, field hockey, lacrosse, soccer, baseball, etc.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:36 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 4,769,771 times
Reputation: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
What does that mean? A white programmer might not know how to discuss programming with Black programmer if they didn't go to the same school? Or grow up in the same neighborhood? Or a Black Bank Manager couldn't manage people Asians if he didn't grow up with them? Really? I've never seen that to be a problem.

There are some things, from some cultures, that I don't think anyone needs to learn. There's a reason why some cultures are more successful than others. We need to take the successful parts and ignore the other, less successful, parts.

I am glad that your diverse school didn't "hinder" you academically. Some parents hope for a bit more, like cultural diversity that actually supports academics. For many parents, that's why they send their children to school, for the academics, regardless of the race or country of origin of the other students. TJ is a good example of that. Lots of Asian diversity, (54% of students) Chinese, Korean, Indian, Pakistani, Japanese, etc, ALL supporting challenging academics. That's what parents look for, strong academics and students who support that. Peers matter. Parents want their kids in classes with other kids who care about academics and grades. That's why parents of white kids still want their kids to go to TJ, even though they are a minority.

You can download TJ stats at the link on this page:
FCPS - News Releases
It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with managing another person or discussing jobs issues with other people. My point was not about job performance at all really. But people who are not exposed to diversity often have difficult times when it comes to cultural sensitivities of other people from different backgrounds (be it religious, racial, ethnic, national etc). We've all seen and heard people say and do offensive things, not because they intended to be offensive but simply because they didn't know any better.

Back in the 70s (or maybe 60s) a lot of business schools began overhauling their curriculum in response to businesses complaining that, though recent grads were proficient in their 'hard' skills (statistics, accounting, finance, management, etc) they really lacked a lot of the more interpersonal 'soft' skills (teamwork, tolerance, etc). Thats why you see more courses on diversity, psychology, sociology and the likes in business schools today. Not because its "PC" but because people are realizing that these skills actually do play a big role in how successful a future grad can be.

And promoting diversity is not about picking up practices of other cultures, but again, more about developing interpersonal skills (tolerance, acceptance, empathy, sensitivity) that can't be taught in a book but have to be learned from experience.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:02 PM
 
55 posts, read 44,394 times
Reputation: 27
PWC is just so symbolic of the housing crash. Terrible commutes, terrible schools, terrible building standards, sub-standard police department, lower wages, and people believing spending 450,000 on a vinyl siding toolshed was something to brag about. These are the people that really missed the boat.
Sometimes people are very honest with everyone but themselves...........I would like to see a scientific analysis; but my 30 years of RE transactions tells me that PG County has fared a lot better depreciation wise than PW.

"But Stonewall has a great IB program." I'm sure for ten or twenty students out of 2000 that it helps them. Moderator Cut: Rude stereotype

Last edited by FindingZen; 08-31-2009 at 10:56 AM..
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