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Again, Vienna residents should be thankful that McLean residents are helping to pay for the aesthetics that make Outback and Wu's Garden uber chic.
I'm sure it's a great place to go for a celebration without breaking the bank. Cheap chilli dogs for everyone!
I wouldn't call a place family friendly though if it only hosts end of season team celebrations.
Obviously you've never been to the VI on a Friday or Saturday night. It's totally packed, with families. Kids from the high school go there after school for Chili Dogs. Older people meet there to talk and share a beer. There's no one in Vienna who doesn't go to the VI and they always run into other folks they know. It's just one other place that makes Vienna a real home town.
One would expect the scores to be lower in McLean due to the difference in the percent that qualify for free or reduced lunches. In 07-08, economically disadvanted students in McLean HS scored a combined verbal, math, & writing of 1543. McLean also has a lot more kids that are limited English proficient scoring combined 1628. How may economically disadvantaged students did Langley have to contribute to their SAT stats? None.
It goes back also to your argument about McLean HS being under enrolled while the student ratios for McLean is 14:1 while Langley is 14:1. One would expect the scores to be lower in McLean due to the difference in the percent that qualify for free or reduced lunches.
I agree that schools with higher percentages of ESL and FRR students generally might be expected to have lower test scores, although I do reject the suggestion that it is determinative.
As I've said before, students can get a great education at a number of Fairfax schools. Suggesting that any particular community-based high or middle school, whether it's in McLean, Vienna or anywhere else in the county, has the "most ideal" demographics or is the "best" school is a silly exercise. Discussing what is attractive to you or your children about a particular school might be useful to a prospective resident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by live_strong28
Drive around the area a bit and realize that the subpar things you describe about McLean are also in your very own backyard. Pay that toll and cross over. Learn.
I spend a lot of time in both Vienna and McLean. Neither could ever reasonably be designed as subpar, which is not to say that there aren't things that could be improved.
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Originally Posted by live_strong28
I think you should review the data and try to figure it out for yourself. I'm don't want to have to break out the hand puppets every time. The bottom line is that you said that Marshall SAT scores were trending up past Madison's scores. Nobody has disputed that. I took it another level and showed that the majority of the students at Madison (asians and whites) are holding the fort, while a few other groups in the small minority have caused Madison's trending to go down. Who knows how it will go in the future, but it's definitely not worth getting all giddy about over a few SAT points.
I think you resurrected an exchange we had many months ago about Marshall and Madison in a different context (in which I was responding to assertions that you initially made without any support that the only high schools out of the county's 25 high schools other than TJ worth considering were Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison). I pointed out that you appeared to have picked the schools with the highest test scores and lowest percentages of students from economically challenged backgrounds, and that there were other schools, including Marshall, that also provide their students with excellent learning opportunities. That assessment has been subsequently validated by both US News and Newsweek. I didn't claim that Marshall was better than Madison or concede the opposite. As far as I can tell, you feel pretty much the same way when it comes to a discussion of Langley and McLean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by live_strong28
Longfellow is clearly one of the best MS in FFX Cty. If it doesn't get a passing AYP, then maybe dropping from 99% to 98% caused it.
Freedom Hill though, isn't the cream of the crop. They do have room for improvement, and then didn't make the cut. Oh well!
If dropping from a 99% to a 98% passing rate on SOLs causes a school to not make AYP, it proves that the "AYP" concept is flawed, whether we are talking about Longfellow or Freedom Hill. Your other comments about Freedom Hill are just snippy - while they seem to beg for responses that focus on the attributes of some of McLean's feeder schools, I'm not going to go there.
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Originally Posted by live_strong28
Carson is an equal peer to Longfellow. Both are great schools. McLean also is a great HS. Not the best test score wise compared to TJ or Langley, but totally expected due to McLean being more economically diverse compared to those two schools.
Kilmer recently sent more students to TJ than Longfellow. And Thoreau and Cooper are great middle schools as well, even though they don't house GT Centers.
Who's the head cheer leader for which school? Doesn't matter. It's good if parents are boosters for their kids' schools, whether we're talking about Langley, McLean, Madison, Marshall, Oakton or South Lakes.
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Originally Posted by live_strong28
Surely not everyone who chooses to live in McLean is because of its proximity to DC. That would be a ridiculous assumption on your part. In fact, plenty of people work in the Tyson's area which is right between Vienna and McLean.
I am quite confident that there are people who work in DC and live in Vienna, as well as that there are folks who live in McLean and work in the Tysons area. In general, however, McLean attracts more of the DC professional class, while Vienna has more folks who work in the Tysons/Dulles corredor, as well as in Fairfax, Fair Lakes, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by live_strong28
Also, if you knew anything about McLean, you would realize that it's quite family friendly also, even if it doesn't have the kid magnet Vienna Inn. That darn Vienna Inn is stealing kids from Clemyjontri!
I didn't say that McLean had signs on Chain Bridge Road stating "No Children Allowed" or that Clemyjontri wasn't very nice. I do think that, overall, Vienna is a more, relaxed family-friendly environment than McLean, where the work-family balance is tilted a bit more toward work and professional commitments. The fact that there are at least four ice cream shops in Vienna, and none right now in McLean, sends a bit of a signal here. If you go to a party in McLean, the conversation more quickly focuses on what people do for a living and where they went to school; in Vienna, the conversations more quickly focus on kids' activities. On the other hand, if working parents can afford McLean and reduce their commuting time by living there, that is obviously a "family friendly" consideration.
Obviously you've never been to the VI on a Friday or Saturday night. It's totally packed, with families. Kids from the high school go there after school for Chili Dogs. Older people meet there to talk and share a beer. There's no one in Vienna who doesn't go to the VI and they always run into other folks they know. It's just one other place that makes Vienna a real home town.
That's just lovely, but I'm sure there are other places in NoVa that are better options than where high school kids like to hang out.
BTW, it was you who said that it's a place for after season celebrations, not me.
I agree that schools with higher percentages of ESL and FRR students generally might be expected to have lower test scores, although I do reject the suggestion that it is determinative.
Obviously there is more than one variable in that equation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
As I've said before, students can get a great education at a number of Fairfax schools. Suggesting that any particular community-based high or middle school, whether it's in McLean, Vienna or anywhere else in the county, has the "most ideal" demographics or is the "best" school is a silly exercise. Discussing what is attractive to you or your children about a particular school might be useful to a prospective resident.
When I used the word "ideal," did I say your ideal? I don't recall that. Maybe you jumped the gun again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
I spend a lot of time in both Vienna and McLean. Neither could ever reasonably be designed as subpar, which is not to say that there aren't things that could be improved.
Bravo to you. I've never said McLean was perfect, nor did I ever say that Vienna was imperfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
I think you resurrected an exchange we had many months ago about Marshall and Madison in a different context (in which I was responding to assertions that you initially made without any support that the only high schools out of the county's 25 high schools other than TJ worth considering were Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison). I pointed out that you appeared to have picked the schools with the highest test scores and lowest percentages of students from economically challenged backgrounds, and that there were other schools, including Marshall, that also provide their students with excellent learning opportunities. That assessment has been subsequently validated by both US News and Newsweek. I didn't claim that Marshall was better than Madison or concede the opposite. As far as I can tell, you feel pretty much the same way when it comes to a discussion of Langley and McLean.
And?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
If dropping from a 99% to a 98% passing rate on SOLs causes a school to not make AYP, it proves that the "AYP" concept is flawed, whether we are talking about Longfellow or Freedom Hill. Your other comments about Freedom Hill are just snippy - while they seem to beg for responses that focus on the attributes of some of McLean's feeder schools, I'm not going to go there.
It is flawed, but not as flawed when a school is flagged for not making AYP when they aren't dropping from 99% to 98%.
Talking about McLean's feeder schools as it pertains to McLean HS is a waste of time, b/c McLean HS didn't have an issue with not making AYP. Plus, it's way too soon. Who's to say that those kids that contributed to the feeder school not getting AYP will even make it to HS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
Kilmer recently sent more students to TJ than Longfellow. And Thoreau and Cooper are great middle schools as well, even though they don't house GT Centers.
I don't have the latest data on which middle school sent the most kids to TJ. I do recall recent data that showed Carson sending the most, with Longfellow coming in second.
Maybe the kids from Kilmer have an added incentive to get into TJ based on the ramifications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
Who's the head cheer leader for which school? Doesn't matter. It's good if parents are boosters for their kids' schools, whether we're talking about Langley, McLean, Madison, Marshall, Oakton or South Lakes.
You win hands down.
I am quite confident that there are people who work in DC and live in Vienna, as well as that there are folks who live in McLean and work in the Tysons area. In general, however, McLean attracts more of the DC professional class, while Vienna has more folks who work in the Tysons/Dulles corredor, as well as in Fairfax, Fair Lakes, etc.
I didn't say that McLean had signs on Chain Bridge Road stating "No Children Allowed" or that Clemyjontri wasn't very nice. I do think that, overall, Vienna is a more, relaxed family-friendly environment than McLean, where the work-family balance is tilted a bit more toward work and professional commitments. The fact that there are at least four ice cream shops in Vienna, and none right now in McLean, sends a bit of a signal here. If you go to a party in McLean, the conversation more quickly focuses on what people do for a living and where they went to school; in Vienna, the conversations more quickly focus on kids' activities. On the other hand, if working parents can afford McLean and reduce their commuting time by living there, that is obviously a "family friendly" consideration.[/quote]
Great. Guess we're done and can let others post on the topic if they wish.
Can't help but conclude by noting that I stopped by the Vienna Inn for a bite today and saw several minivans in the parking lot with McLean Highlanders decals on the back. Perhaps we should levy a special "Greater Vienna" assessment tax on those folks from McLean and Falls Church streaming into Vienna with their kids to eat our chili dogs.
Catch up with you later - maybe when you return as growing_up29!
Great. Guess we're done and can let others post on the topic if they wish.
Can't help but conclude by noting that I stopped by the Vienna Inn for a bite today and saw several minivans in the parking lot with McLean Highlanders decals on the back. Perhaps we should levy a special "Greater Vienna" assessment tax on those folks from McLean and Falls Church streaming into Vienna.
Catch up with you later - maybe when you return as growing_up29!
You win hands down as the head cheerleader for Marshall. Shake those pom poms!
As I said before, Vienna should be thankful that McLean residents come over to Vienna to chow. Again, that surely helps pay for the aesthetics.
If only the Vienna Inn could fit in a play set and a sandbox, then it would really be family friendly causing all sorts of businesses to close down such as Chuck E. Cheeses, Fuddruckers, etc., but then again that wouldn't be chain friendly and would go against Vienna's charter...I bet.
Great. Guess we're done and can let others post on the topic if they wish.
Can't help but conclude by noting that I stopped by the Vienna Inn for a bite today and saw several minivans in the parking lot with McLean Highlanders decals on the back. Perhaps we should levy a special "Greater Vienna" assessment tax on those folks from McLean and Falls Church streaming into Vienna with their kids to eat our chili dogs.
Catch up with you later - maybe when you return as growing_up29!
I'm not surprised the Vienna Inn is popular. How else are they going to pay their bills if they aren't family friendly since they sell chili dogs and beer?
If growing up means being like you, then you can remain in your own exclusive group by yourself.
I've been through both. Vienna gets the thumbs up over McLean.
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