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Mhmm - parts of D.C. are aesthetically pleasing (and expensive), ditto Old Town Alexandria, but what I don't get is why someone would plunk down 1.5 mil (or more) on a yardless McMansion in, say, Merrifield.
Supply and demand, my friend, supply and demand.
Getting back to topic... whether something is "wrong" with Fort Washington and other inside-the-Beltway towns across the pond in Prince Georges County might depend on one's previous background as well as future expectations. Can it do better? Surely. The folks over on the Maryland forum have regular discussions on the state of affairs in PG and how they could improve.
Last edited by FindingZen; 12-28-2009 at 12:43 PM..
Mhmm - parts of D.C. are aesthetically pleasing (and expensive), ditto Old Town Alexandria, but what I don't get is why someone would plunk down 1.5 mil (or more) on a yardless McMansion in, say, Merrifield. McLean I mostly don't get, either, though the topography is quite pretty there, so if you could afford a compound with some land... an airstrip would be nice, too. (No, I'm not kidding... if you have to live here but can afford not to deal with the traffic, do it!)
I do concede that NoVA isn't the gated HOA capital of the US - I think I've spent too much time in San Antonio and around Lake Tahoe, where they're annoyingly thick - but remove "gated" from my original statement and I stand by it.
I'm not aware of anyone who's plunked down $1.5 million for a McMansion, yardless or otherwise, in Merrifield.
There are folks who've spent over $1.5 million for a yardless McMansion in Falls Church near the West Falls Church metro, and over a million for a yardless McMansion near Tysons. It wouldn't be my personal choice, and some of the people who spent that kind of money in, say, 2006 may not have any equity in their homes today, but I can understand the factors that led to their decisions, which are basically proximity to either their jobs or the Metro and good schools. You could buy the same or a bigger house for far less on more land in Fort Washington, but the jobs are further away, there's no Metro, the schools aren't a draw, and there are even fewer shops and restaurants nearby than is the case in a place like Merrifield.
With respect to McLean, I'd also confess some bafflement as well as to why an area that affluent doesn't have a more attractive commercial center, with more appealing shops and restaurants. Having said that, I think the variety of residential architecture in McLean is pretty impressive.
I moved from Arlington to Fort Washington a little over 5 years ago, and couldn't be happier. I live in a place of great natural beauty, a house that I can easily afford and the best neighbors that anyone could ask for. I also live in a community with it's own marina, golf course, and country club, and enjoy a lifestyle which would cost millions of dollars in, say, Avenel in Potomac, which has no Marina, and no homes have water views or docks. In many ways, it's probably a good thing that many people have no idea where we are, or what they're missing.
Of course I may be something of an exception because I don't have children, and don't miss all of the stores and fast-food places which most other residential areas have. A very occasional meal at our country club, or seafood on the dock at Proud Mary's, or a special celebration at one of the pricey chain restaurants at the National Harbor or one of the local places in Alexandria suits me.
Once we started looking in our neighborhood, it was almost embarrasing to go back to our Clarendon, Arlington neighborhood, where tiny run-down single-family homes cost $600-800,000 and prices quckly escalate into 7 figures. Clarendon looked like a slum in comparison. I have also experienced a lot of crime in Arlington, having had my car stolen, my house broken into and things stolen from and damaged in my yard during the 11 years I lived there. I have to admit, though, that the police department was very responsive. An alarm system and good neighbors have (I hope) reduced the liklihood that I'll have as many problems in Fort Washington.
I live in Tantallon-On-The-Potomac, which is one of the first planned communities in the Washington DC area. A house which closely resembled mine in Arlington (but had an extra bath, but was on a smaller lot, and was not in a Country Club/Marina community) was priced 3.5 times what I paid for my house in Tantallon!
There's a lot to do here if you like the great outdoors. I don't need to find a bike path, because my streets are wide and uncluttered with cars. I can bike to our pool, and for miles of safe roads. There are hundreds of acres of Federal land around the Fort to hike and walk. I can rent a kayak at either the National Harbor or the Fort Washington Marina.
Of course I may be something of an exception because I don't have children, and don't miss all of the stores and fast-food places which most other residential areas have. A very occasional meal at our country club, or seafood on the dock at Proud Mary's, or a special celebration at one of the pricey chain restaurants at the National Harbor or one of the local places in Alexandria suits me.
Once we started looking in our neighborhood, it was almost embarrasing to go back to our Clarendon, Arlington neighborhood, where tiny run-down single-family homes cost $600-800,000 and prices quckly escalate into 7 figures. Clarendon looked like a slum in comparison. I have also experienced a lot of crime in Arlington, having had my car stolen, my house broken into and things stolen from and damaged in my yard during the 11 years I lived there. I have to admit, though, that the police department was very responsive. An alarm system and good neighbors have (I hope) reduced the liklihood that I'll have as many problems in Fort Washington.
I live in Tantallon-On-The-Potomac, which is one of the first planned communities in the Washington DC area. A house which closely resembled mine in Arlington (but had an extra bath, but was on a smaller lot, and was not in a Country Club/Marina community) was priced 3.5 times what I paid for my house in Tantallon!
On the one hand, I think Southern PG is under-rated. You've got some really nice parkland (love Piscataway Park!) and National Harbor within close driving distance.
On the other hand, Clarendon isn't really comparable. People live in Clarendon because they want the walkability, the vibrance, the restaurants, the bars and the Metro access. Tantallon is a bedroom community- all residential. People usually move to places like Tantallon if they're raising a family of if they get sick of the crowdedness of the city. Given that first reason, it should be pretty obvious why houses in Potomac are so much more expensive. There's also the commuting aspect. For people who work in Tysons, Dulles or the 270 corridor, Tantallon is a tough commute.
All that said, it seems like Tantallon fits your situation perfectly, so more power to you for finding it!
On the one hand, I think Southern PG is under-rated. You've got some really nice parkland (love Piscataway Park!) and National Harbor within close driving distance.
On the other hand, Clarendon isn't really comparable. People live in Clarendon because they want the walkability, the vibrance, the restaurants, the bars and the Metro access. Tantallon is a bedroom community- all residential. People usually move to places like Tantallon if they're raising a family of if they get sick of the crowdedness of the city. Given that first reason, it should be pretty obvious why houses in Potomac are so much more expensive. There's also the commuting aspect. For people who work in Tysons, Dulles or the 270 corridor, Tantallon is a tough commute.
All that said, it seems like Tantallon fits your situation perfectly, so more power to you for finding it!
Well, maybe if they are already planning on private schools. PG County schools aren't generally sought-after...one of the reasons property values are so much lower there and why pp found his nabe such a relative bargain.
Well, maybe if they are already planning on private schools. PG County schools aren't generally sought-after...one of the reasons property values are so much lower there and why pp found his nabe such a relative bargain.
Oops.. yeah... that was my point. I think I worded it confusingly.
I was saying that people would seek out bedroom communities when they have kids. Tantallon is that type of place, but places like Potomac would be much more in demand because of the better schools. That's why Southern PG remains an affordable "secret"- because families looking for high-ranked public schools won't go near it.
I couldn't agree more with the responses to my first post!
Yes, the public schools in PG aren't great, and most of my neighbors have their kids in privates schools.
Yes. Tantallon works well for me, but wouldn't work as well for everyone
Yes. I miss metrorail, but do sometimes use the express bus lot close to us to avoid driving.
Yes, Clarendon has a "big city" vibe, which includes parking hassles now, but does include many choices of restaurants and pricey stores. I liked living in Arlington and it's a wonderful place for many people to live, if they can spring upwards of a million dollars (and the Arlington price for a home with similar features to mine was $1.4 to $1.7 million in 2004, by the way) for a house, don't mind having a small house, small lot, and (usually) no garage. The schools, libraries and police are all great. I liked some of this hustle and bustle, but work in Dupont, where I get a daily fix of that. I looked in DC, and considered some places in Petworth, Chillum and Hillcrest, but didin't think the trade-off in terms of house size and outdoor recreation was worth it for me. Furthermore, in 2004, there was so much construction and traffic noise and congestion in Clarendon, that I didn't see Arlington as a great substitute for actually living in DC.
And, yes, people live in Avenel in Potomac for the schools, and because they can afford it, although the lots are tiny, tiny tiny! I didn't mention this in the first post, but used Avenel as a comparable to Tantallon because of the community amenities (club, pool etc), but if I had 7 figures to spend on a house in Potomac, I'd probably buy in Falconhurst in Potomac, which at least gives you 2 acres with each house, as opposed to a likely average lot size in Avenel of 1/4 to 1/3 acre.
I didn't mention services in PG County in my first post, and some people might find this useful
1. Trash Service : Oddly enough, I've gotten better trash service in PG County though, with 2 day regular trash service and more reliable brush and bulk trash services.
2. Police: Police response time in Fort Washington is most definitely slower in Fort Washington at the moment than in some other jurisdictions. This is not
the fault of the police, as the County has not yet built a long-promised police substation in Fort Washington. Police officers must come from Oxon Hill, where we believe that additional service to National Harbor is straining police resources. The officers we have, however, are as professional and competent as any I've encountered in DC or Arlington County. Crime is definitely lower in my neighborhood than in a number of other neighborhoods in Fort Washington.
3. Nuisances: We have a Control Committee in Tantallon-On-The-Potomac and Tantallon Hills, which takes care of a number of problems (cutting down trees, commercial signs, house styles-each home is to be unique, paint colors etc) , but things like tall grass and commercial vehicles are an enforcement problem the County handles. They've been somewhat slow in this regard, but a team effort in the neighborhood has helped improve responses to nuisances.
4. Libraries: The number of newer books and variety of books available is somewhat smaller than in Arlington, whose Central Library has been rated #1 in the region by the Washingtonian Magazine. The new Accoceek Library opened in 2005 (I think) and is a very attractive facility with most books dating from that period. The Oxon Hill library is older, with an older collection, but has much more depth than Accoceek.
5. Hospitals: The Fort Washington Hospital is still fairly small, although they're trying to expand. Its apparently quite sufficient for many emergencies, but people with some serious illnesses are transferred to larger hospitals with more resources.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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That was a nice balanced post, Tantallon Resident. I like when people can be honest about where they live and say "These are the good. These are the bad." Some people brag about where they live like nothing else compares, and it's hard for newcomers to get an honest assessment. In fact, I think I might start a new thread about good and bad of each town.
Location: Ft. Washington/Oxon Hill border, MD (Prince George's County)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYmama2dallas
Well, maybe if they are already planning on private schools. PG County schools aren't generally sought-after...one of the reasons property values are so much lower there and why pp found his nabe such a relative bargain.
As new parents I think we are one of those families that were going to go private either way. As with the prior poster, most of my neighbors kids are in private schools also or if not then the French Immersion or Montessori public schools. I truly dislike the focus on teaching to pass standardized tests. Most of my teacher friends can't stand this either and it is one reason they are sending their own kids to private. This is not true learning in my view and publics are too focused on it. Frankly as Newsweek and other magazines have detailed...this technique is also not working for many boys. All boys not just minority ones are not doing as well and are losing interest in school. Ever wonder why more and more women are outnumbering men at the college and grad school levels? The changes start happening around 4th grade for boys.
Cover: The Trouble With Boys - Newsweek - Newsweek Society - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek/ - broken link) Why Are School-Age Boys Struggling? - Newsweek
"The way we teach children has changed, too. In many communities, elementary schools have become test-prep factories—where standardized testing begins in kindergarten and "teaching to the test" is considered a virtue. At the same time, recess is being pushed aside in order to provide extra time for reading and math drills. "
As my first is a boy I hope to send him to an environment that is most conducive for him to learn and love learning. I also dislike the deemphasis on arts/music. Languages are a must starting in preschool in my view. I've studied and continue to work on my Spanish, French and a wee bit of Mandarin and am exposing him to it now. We have a few years to worry about elementary school since our first was just born this year. Though we are researching preschools now. Wherever we chose to live in this area, I think we are going the private school route and frankly staying over here makes that more affordable for the two kids we plan to have. We also have a great support system nearby of family members for childcare. That money I am saving on a nanny/daycare right now as grandma watches him is banked for private school. As far as options nearby, I like Burgundy Farms in Alexandria which apparantly has quite a few students from Ft. Wash as they have a regular bus route to/from there and preset parent carpools to/from Ft. Wash. There is also Beddow which is Montessori...haven't heard much about it but it is half the cost of the ones typically recommended across the bridge like Burgundy Farms. All the DC privates are options also. Frankly I think living in Fort Wash. is only a plus in admissions considerations versus the bazillions of kids applying from the usual neighborhoods in Fairfax and Montgomery when looking for geographic diversity. I know folks that work in admissions at private schools in the area and such things do get great consideration. We also have language immersion and Montessori private options over here for under $15k a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcity
On the one hand, I think Southern PG is under-rated. You've got some really nice parkland (love Piscataway Park!) and National Harbor within close driving distance.
On the other hand, Clarendon isn't really comparable. People live in Clarendon because they want the walkability, the vibrance, the restaurants, the bars and the Metro access. Tantallon is a bedroom community- all residential. People usually move to places like Tantallon if they're raising a family of if they get sick of the crowdedness of the city. Given that first reason, it should be pretty obvious why houses in Potomac are so much more expensive. There's also the commuting aspect. For people who work in Tysons, Dulles or the 270 corridor, Tantallon is a tough commute.
All that said, it seems like Tantallon fits your situation perfectly, so more power to you for finding it!
I agree you do not come to Ft. Wash if you want walkability.
I have worked in Tysons since I have lived over here and now work in the Dulles Corridor. The commute is not as bad a people think it is...especially with the new bridge. Yes when you look at miles it is worse than most places in MoCo...but timewise...it is pretty comparable if not better. Ft. Wash is a great reverse commute in that direction. I actually got to experience the rush hour commute to/from the Dulles Corridor a few times while helping out a friend in MoCo. It ranged 40-60 minutes from the Bethesda/Potomac/Rockville area and I don't even want to imagine 270 which I didn't have to deal much with at the time since I was closer to the beltway most days. Ft. Wash to the same location in Dulles ranged 50 - 70 minutes. When I saw that I kind of changed my opinion of possibly escaping to MoCo one day as a closer option to work in Dulles. The only place I'd consider moving to get closer to work in the Dulles area is NoVa. Assuming you are going to do private school anyway (and most of my legal colleagues that live there do private despite being in some great districts)...it is just not worth that much more in mortgage to save 10-15 minutes of commute time...much of which is more stop/go traffic versus open highway than my current route. To me Rockville/Gaithersburg to Dulles is a much tougher commute than Ft. Wash to Dulles. Now the folks I am jealous of are the folks coming from McLean/Vienna/Herndon/Reston/Ashburn (basically anything that does not involve 66)..now that is a commute I'd like to have.
I just visited friends in Haymarket this weekend and they were asking me and the hubby if we'd ever consider moving there. I also have a coworker that lives there who is always trying to convince folks to come there. To me...price wise for the kind of land and house you get (ignoring schools/shops/dining etc for now)....folks can get comparable land/housing in much of Prince William County (Haymarket, Woodbridge, etc) and Loudoun County (Ashburn, Leesburg) and Prince Georges (Fort Washington, Upper Marlboro, Bowie) and Charles County for about the same price range. You have to go so much further away from DC to get comparable housing at the same price point. At that point of course proximity work for both spouses (assuming you both work), schools and other things come into play. For myself, areas like Haymarket and Ashburn would be closer to my work in the Dulles corridor. Though for hubby, he would have a hellish commute to work in DC. I see all those poor folks trekking that direction as I come in each day and I feel for them. Currently, we use metro when going into the city for fun/museums etc and sometimes hubby does metro instead of driving (Southern Ave. station is 10 min away). There are also lots of bus stops around our neighborhood as options. I like that public transport is a real option today and I do not have to wait until 2020 or however many years from now for it. So, for now 60 min reverse commute to Dulles for me and nice 30 or less commute to DC for hubby works great for us.
For schools, as mentioned it is private either way for us so I think we have better options available to us by living closer to DC where many of the best ones are located and Alexandria which has some we like.
All that said...we debate this issue currently within our home as we consider trading up within Fort Wash. or relocating. We have rental property over here that is easier to manage on our own from here. If we change homes, we plan to keep this one as an additional rental.
We are also debating the value of sitting on an acre or more. Frankly hubby hates spending long weekends on yard work and also dropping a fortune to have someone else keep it up. We are torn right now on if we want a ton of land or not. We do frequent some of the beautiful parks over here. I just run into more and more people who once they get all that land complain all the time about the upkeep and the time it takes away from other things you'd rather be doing. I mean our .25 lot is enough work as it is, I can't imagine more. We also debate the appeal of McMansions vs. smaller and more unique properties. I personally am more drawn to some of the unique contemporary architecture in Ft. Wash with Potomac River views versus living in a cookie cutter colonial McMansion community. While on the topic of upkeep...we have 3600 sq ft right now to maintain and that is kicking our butt while both working full time. Our maid service is about $160 a cleaning and we use them once a month though sometimes I think we need it more frequently now with the baby's time demands add to our schedules.
If we consider resale down the line...I do think once you get over $500k it is harder to sell a home over here. Just like us, the folks looking in that price range have many options in this area. Though by the time we resell who knows where the market will be over here. I think this is a great value for a home close to the city priced $200-$400k assuming you do not have an issue being the minority in the community (as we would have being someplace like Haymarket) have no kids (as I did not when I purchased) or can afford private school (for which there are more affordable options under $15k/yr over here than the usual $25k+/yr places many discuss).
At the end of the day there are families that it will work for and those that it will not for various reasons. It has its good and bad like anywhere. I have noticed the diversity increasing while out and about in the past year which is great. I wonder how the area will evolve over the years. Thank goodness Jack is about to be out of office...though I am not sure the new candidates are anything to get excited about.
TantallonResident, I love love love your neighborhood. If we trade up that is one place we would consider. I love the unique style of the homes. There is some beautiful landscaping over there also. It is the exact opposite of the cookie cutter McMansion communities all over the county.
TantallonResident, I love love love your neighborhood. If we trade up that is one place we would consider. I love the unique style of the homes. There is some beautiful landscaping over there also. It is the exact opposite of the cookie cutter McMansion communities all over the county.
Just curious--does Tantallon have any newish construction? I haven't lived over in that area for 15 years. In the 70s and 80s, Tantallon was the posh community for all my doctors, area lawyers, etc. Then as they moved up and out, higher paid white collar workers moved in. As of the 90s, there wasn't any new construction going on there and I remember it being more of a "custom built" place. I was wondering if anything had changed.
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- but remove "gated" from my original statement and I stand by it. 
