Do you Consider NOVA/VA a Southern State/Mentality? (Arlington: income, live)

[marie5v]

Originally Posted by TPL

(I'm only talking about the extremely leftist-liberal Jewish folks, the sort that bump into you at the supermarket with their fur coats and gold jewelry stacks, and then don't care about it)).

NOooo, you don't sound like an anti-Semitic bigot at all.

[Margery]

[quote=TPL;15285643]I'm trying to say this in the most PC way possible without sounding like a bigot, but Maryland is far too New Yorker Jewish to ever be the South. Anyone who's lived around NYC knows the sort of people I'm talking about (Note: This is not an anti-Semitic comment, not by a long stretch, but it is my personal observation based upon certain groups of people, and my experiences with them (I'm only talking about the extremely leftist-liberal Jewish folks, the sort that bump into you at the supermarket with their fur coats and gold jewelry stacks, and then don't care about it)).

How can you tell someone bumping into you at the supermarket is Jewish? Do they bump differently than Catholics or Protestants? Talk about stereotyping!

[Carlingtonian]

The big divide in the USA right now is not northern/southern or west/east, but urban vs. rural. The reason people from Manhattan or Westchester feel at home in NOVA or Bethesda is that those are enclaves of educated, affluent, (mostly) social progressives. You'd find the same people in Austin, large swaths of Dallas, probably most of Atlanta--pretty much any major city in the South. Even Charlottesville, thanks to UVA, doesn't seem "Southern" in the way small towns in Prince William would.

I grew up in Texas and never lived north of the Mason-Dixon line till I was out of college. The South has a lot of good people and great culture. The food is great. I even love country music. But some of what people call "Southern" is just a euphemism for not wanting to be around people who are different from oneself. And a lot of the residual confederate BS in NOVA embarrasses me. Having a highway named after Jefferson Davis makes us look like rednecks. I mean, the guy was a traitor. It's not as bad as having the confederate battle flag on our state flag--hello, South Carolina!--but it's on that gradient. Same with the "sic semper tyrannis" on our flag--the phrase uttered by Booth when he shot Lincoln.

To our credit, I think NOVA is incredibly tolerant and diverse. Arlington has more interracial couples than I've ever seen anywhere else (even Manhattan, where I also lived once). I do get sick of people from Maryland acting like we're all a bunch of hillbillies. If you're of a progressive or moderate bent, you find yourself constantly having to defend NOVA to smug DC hipsters and smug Montgomery County people who think we all hate gay people and carry firearms in the swimming pool.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

The big divide in the USA right now is not northern/southern or west/east, but urban vs. rural.

Sorry if this veers off topic, at least geographically but one place I can think of that flies in the face of this is Orange County, CA. The people there have about the same material wealth, income, and "urbanization" as folks in the "blue" places you mention, including NOVA but they still vote Republican. I've never quite figured that one out. There's an endless thread over in the CA forum that discusses it.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by TPL

I'm trying to say this in the most PC way possible without sounding like a bigot, but Maryland is far too New Yorker Jewish to ever be the South. Anyone who's lived around NYC knows the sort of people I'm talking about (Note: This is not an anti-Semitic comment, not by a long stretch, but it is my personal observation based upon certain groups of people, and my experiences with them (I'm only talking about the extremely leftist-liberal Jewish folks, the sort that bump into you at the supermarket with their fur coats and gold jewelry stacks, and then don't care about it)).

When my family came down to NoVa from New York, it was my father's first time really living in VA (Even though he worked at Norfolk), but my mother and her family were originally from Southern VA. She lived on Ft. Myer as a kid, but she also lived in Petersburg, VA, so NoVa to her was always more associated with Washington, D.C., whereas Petersburg, VA, VA Beach, etc. were all "Real VA". They almost considered living in MD, but my mom found it WAY too leftist New Yorker. She didn't consider NoVa to be Virginia at all, but she much preferred it to Maryland in terms of attitude.

Btw, if you look at the politicians and voting records, you will find that my assertions about Maryland are actually quite scientific as well. They actually are one of the most ardent Democrat/Liberal states in the nation, even though people often overlook such due to the very reasons for which you mention (Quite a few people consider it too Southern to be anything close to resembling MA, CA, or any typically liberal State, but it is). VA on the other hand is obviously more Conservative (NoVa is liberal, but somewhat Moderate).

I would also like to point out the fact that "Southern" and "Deep South" are not one-in-the same. The Deep South, is the DEEP South (ie, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, etc.). Virginia is simply Southern, or "The South". Virginia has always been, in my view, more of a sophisticated Southern State (In Colonial times it was the wealthiest colony, and throughout history it has produced the greatest number of Presidents, and multitudes of highly educated, and noteworthy American heroes/Patriots/etc.).

It is unfair to classify the entire state of Maryland as being "New York Jewish." Maryland does not equal Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and Potomac. Eastern Maryland definitely still retains its agricultural and Southern roots. Prince George's County certainly doesn't have many Jews. Batimore, Harford, and Cecil counties are not Jewish nor is Western Maryland, which mirros the demographics of south central and southwestern Pennsylvania more than anything else.

As someone who lived in New Jersey for quite a few years, Northern Virginia IS the South. Going through this thread, I have been laughing at the posts that compare Northern Virginia to suburban New York or Philadelphia. Northern cities have strong ethnic European neighborhoods and distinct suburbs that are lacking in Northern Virginia. Sure Northern Virginia has areas where Hispanics, Asians, and African-Americans are concentrated, but to say that Northern Virginia is anything like suburban Boston, New York, Philadelphia, or even Baltimore is a gross mistatement.

Maryland has always been a Southern state that differed from other Southern states. Maryland had a high number of abolitionists and people who were actively involved in social movements. Those people would have likely been labeled the "liberals" of the 1800s. Does that take away from Maryland's history which is VERY much Southern? I don't think so. Salisbury, Cambridge, and Easton all seem Southern to me. Portions of St. Mary's and Calvert counties seem Southern as well. Even portions of PG County channel the South.

With all that said, I reaffirm my statement that NoVA is nothing like the suburbs of other cities in the megalopolis. NoVA actually reminds me quite a bit of suburban Atlanta in look and feel.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by miamiman

NoVA actually reminds me quite a bit of suburban Atlanta in look and feel.

OMG!!!

[Caladium]

This question is so ridiculous. It's like saying does your cat remind you more of a llama or an elephant.

I consider Virginia to have a Virginian mentality. If you really need to define it beyond that, Virginia is mid-atlantic. It is not southern, it is not northern. Just like a cat is a cat, not a llama and not an elephant.

[michgc]

Originally Posted by TPL

I'm trying to say this in the most PC way possible without sounding like a bigot, but Maryland is far too New Yorker Jewish to ever be the South.

If it is "...too New Yorker..." in Maryland then I can understand how it might not feel like the south. But since being Jewish is a religion rather than a geographical location, I don't see how it being "...too...Jewish..." in Maryland can make it feel less like the South. Jewish people have been in the South as far back as the 1600's.

And unfortunately, there is no possible way of saying what you said without sound like a bigot.

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

Sorry if this veers off topic, at least geographically but one place I can think of that flies in the face of this is Orange County, CA. The people there have about the same material wealth, income, and "urbanization" as folks in the "blue" places you mention, including NOVA but they still vote Republican. I've never quite figured that one out. There's an endless thread over in the CA forum that discusses it.

Well, the GOP in California is more socially liberal than elsewhere. I think this broadens its base there, so that social moderates who want low taxes and the right to buy a shotgun feel comfortable being Republican.

When you get down to it, I think it's really culture and religion that divide the country (because of issues like the church/state divide, abortion, gay rights, etc.)--and the urban/rural divide merely reflects that. There are wealthy conservatives in places like Dallas (and even Arlington) who would feel more culturally aligned with rural people than their more progressive neighbors.

At any rate: Whether NOVA is Southern depends on how you define the latter. It's not guys in seersucker watching horse races; nor is it even pickups and camo. I lived in the South half my life, and it's not the South culturally. Is it Chicago or Minnapolis? No. It's the Mid-Atlantic--as others have noted, with small elements of the South and the North.

[LeopoldButtersStotch]

Originally Posted by pcity

Aside from the street names ("Jefferson Davis Highway", "Lee Highway"), I consider NoVA just as northern as Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

Because most people in the area are transplants are from PA, NJ, and NY.
Its hard being a Virginian in northern Virginia, I always feel like I'm the only one.