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Old 10-20-2009, 06:02 PM
 
3,986 posts, read 6,593,759 times
Reputation: 2449

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous703 View Post
...who cares who owns the store from which one purchases their alcohol?
Nobody.

What I care about is GIVING away a solid revenue stream such as ABC to the politically well-connected, cronies, etc.

If disposal of ABC would result in ZERO cost to taxpayers, or even a profit, then I'm all for it.
But that ain't how politics works! The taxpayer will get it in the neck, as always...
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:19 PM
 
7,525 posts, read 9,633,160 times
Reputation: 2931
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous703 View Post
Can you please provide me a link to your case? I make my living in the aviation industry (and have my pilot license) and I'm pretty @#$% sure that an improper flap setting, at best, is only a contributing factor.

ETA: Here's a Link: DCA87MA046 (http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X31759&key=1 - broken link).

It looks like the pilots didn't run their checklist (which to me is a much bigger deal than "just forgot to set the flaps") combined with the fact that the improper takeoff configuration warning didn't function.
(I'll answer with my opinion even though this not the place to argue aviation stuff)
The improper flap setting is the major cause. You do not fly without setting the flaps to the proper position in any aircraft. The checklist is to make sure, but not setting or checking the flaps is really stupid. While not running through the checklist is also a major screw up, it pales in comparison to the simple basic task of setting the flaps and looking at the lever to see if they're set. If I recall correctly, if they had gone through the checklist they would have discovered the non-functioning warning device as well. NW255's pilots were just as lazy and lackadaisical about doing their job as this clerk was, maybe worse. They should never have been at the controls of that plane. I saw the flaming wreckage on Middlebelt Rd. and will never forget it.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:47 AM
 
191 posts, read 207,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf747 View Post
(I'll answer with my opinion even though this not the place to argue aviation stuff)
The improper flap setting is the major cause. You do not fly without setting the flaps to the proper position in any aircraft. The checklist is to make sure, but not setting or checking the flaps is really stupid. While not running through the checklist is also a major screw up, it pales in comparison to the simple basic task of setting the flaps and looking at the lever to see if they're set. If I recall correctly, if they had gone through the checklist they would have discovered the non-functioning warning device as well. NW255's pilots were just as lazy and lackadaisical about doing their job as this clerk was, maybe worse. They should never have been at the controls of that plane. I saw the flaming wreckage on Middlebelt Rd. and will never forget it.
Thats very similar to a Spanish MD80 crash a couple of years ago. The fact of the matter is that humans will always make this type of error the only question is the frequency. And when the errors get coupled with malfunctioning warning equipment or other circumstances in an accident chain, horrible things happen. However, I really think a distinction should be made between a pilots oversight and that of a convenience store clerk. In one case you have a person responsible for hundreds of lives and is highly trained. Not so much in the case of the clerk.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:35 AM
 
257 posts, read 344,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdaq View Post
The fact of the matter is that humans will always make this type of error the only question is the frequency.
That's basically the point -- as long as you have humans, you will have human error -- no matter what the field.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:56 AM
 
5,210 posts, read 5,170,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous703 View Post
That's basically the point -- as long as you have humans, you will have human error -- no matter what the field.
The problem is, if there isn't a fairly stiff penalty for selling alcohol to minors, then some clerks won't bother checking IDs at all, especially their friends' IDs. Then the next thing you know, some kid gets killed while driving drunk, the parents sue the store, the store goes out of business, other stores don't want that liability so they stop selling alcohol altogether...Next thing you know even grown ups can't buy a beer or a bottle of wine.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:16 AM
 
191 posts, read 207,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
The problem is, if there isn't a fairly stiff penalty for selling alcohol to minors, then some clerks won't bother checking IDs at all, especially their friends' IDs. Then the next thing you know, some kid gets killed while driving drunk, the parents sue the store, the store goes out of business, other stores don't want that liability so they stop selling alcohol altogether...Next thing you know even grown ups can't buy a beer or a bottle of wine.
And even when there is a stiff penalty some clerks don't bother checking ID's (at least not 100% of the time). I agree with some previous posts that a fine and/or perhaps a write-up is in order. Look, the bottom line, and I think its incontrovertible, is that a clerk that rarely fails to check an ID is not contributing in any significant way to drunk driving deaths or teen ARI's. Now I agree that a clerk who habitually sells without checking an ID should be fired, but a criminal charge? I don't think that would be just unless there was clear intent to distribute to a minor.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Reston, VA
1,371 posts, read 1,994,382 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margery View Post
If someone carded me I would tip him
Try Wegman's! They have their cash registers programed to require the cashier to input the customer's date of birth when the first alcoholic beverage is scaned. The cash register will not accept another item until the date is inputed. This requires 100% ID by the cashiers.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:39 PM
 
7,525 posts, read 9,633,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdaq View Post
Thats very similar to a Spanish MD80 crash a couple of years ago. The fact of the matter is that humans will always make this type of error the only question is the frequency. And when the errors get coupled with malfunctioning warning equipment or other circumstances in an accident chain, horrible things happen. However, I really think a distinction should be made between a pilots oversight and that of a convenience store clerk. In one case you have a person responsible for hundreds of lives and is highly trained. Not so much in the case of the clerk.
Of course the jobs and training are different. I know that. However, both have a responsibility to not forget something so routine, so basic to the job, that to miss it can have disastrous results. If they can't handle it then.... you know the rest.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:05 PM
 
261 posts, read 854,493 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by JfromReston View Post
Try Wegman's! They have their cash registers programed to require the cashier to input the customer's date of birth when the first alcoholic beverage is scaned. The cash register will not accept another item until the date is inputed. This requires 100% ID by the cashiers.
Not specifically Wegmans, but in those situations I have seen cashiers look at me (50s) and then enter an entirely fictional DOB (often the one that is up there that says "if you were born after...").
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:06 PM
 
Location: southern california
50,247 posts, read 47,579,412 times
Reputation: 41650
by any chance are you that person?
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