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Old 11-29-2009, 09:14 PM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,641,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movedoften View Post
To suggest that Government workers as a whole work harder and are underpaid compared to the private sector is absolutely ludicrous. I don't doubt that many work hard and I don't doubt many are extremely talented. However, the Federal Governemt, run by Federal employees is so inefficient it is scary. Those ineffeciencies are directly related to incompetence, tenured and secured employment status and a public sector work ethic. When was the last time the Post Office turned a profit? Any Private Company that was run like the Federal Government would be out of business.

For the record, inflation is simply a rise in the cost of goods and services.

Demand is the pressure consumers place on goods and services. Demand and scarcity can cause inflation.[/
I didn't suggest, nor do I believe, that Government workers as a whole work harder and are unpaid compared to the private sector. However, there are quite a few career Government employees who, for a variety of reasons, continue to work in Government jobs when they could make more in the private sector doing similar or less work.

In comparison, you did clearly suggest that there were large numbers of federal government workers getting paid over $100K for essentially doing nothing over a 20-year period. Bemoaning the purported inefficiency of the federal Government as a whole won't make what you said an accurate description of federal employees, their effort or their salaries. The irony of your observation is, of course, further underscored by the fact that the federal Government has now bailed out quite a few inefficiently run private companies that, allowed to suffer the consequences of their own short-sighted risk management policies, would already have gone bankrupt.

In any event, it's pretty obvious that most folks with a deep-seated antipathy towards the federal Government probably aren't going to be real happy here.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:56 PM
 
1,012 posts, read 2,246,356 times
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Come on. There has to be better reasons to hate the DC area than the ones you stated. If you go thru life not liking where you live because there are a FEW people you dont like, you will dislike everywhere. People are the same no matter where you go. Trust me on that. And jobs are hard to find everywhere in today's economy. If you want to move to Florida or Jersey or NY, then make it happen. Stop making yourself a victim of everyone and everything. I can think of some REAL reasons to hate a place: unsafe, pollution, crowded, etc. I lived in Northern Virginia (Sterling) for most of 2004, and if I could afford it I would easily move back. There is just too much to do in the DC area to get board. Think of the positive things: world-class cultural ammenities, stuff to do everywhere, Appalachain Mts nearby, the proximity to other major East Coast markets and what they offer for fun, etc. I just think you need to open your eyes more and most definately get out more.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Miami Gardens, Florida
71 posts, read 265,751 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-fens View Post
Let me give you some background on myself. I moved to Northern Virginia from Newark, NJ to take a job that is in DC last November. I was familiar with the area since my sister has lived here for about 7 years. When I would come down to visit, I generally liked the area (but then again this was during college and all we were coming down to do was hang out and party, see friends, etc.) At first when moving here, I did like some things such as my car insurance being cheaper, but other than that I've found it to be even more expensive here than North Jersey. My job doesn't pay very well, and while I am in the process of possibly getting another one (that only pays slightly more), I am wondering if I should even bother or just move to an area I want to be and figure things out once I get there. I want to live either in Florida (South Florida or Tampa) or back in North Jersey or NYC. Honestly, everyone in the DC area is some political nutcase that tries to push their agendas on you while reading The Economist and sipping wine they don't even like, but say they do because it fits their image. Other people my age here are in that "wealthy young professional" bracket and have no interest in anyone that doesn't make 75 grand or more a year. Everyone I'm friends with has two or even three jobs just to rent a bedroom of a house in questionable neighborhoods. On top of all that, I can't stand the guy that moved into the basement of my house (my landlord controls who moves in, not me.) Even if I get the new job, I probably won't be able to afford my own place, which I had in NJ. So much for this area being cheaper.
I would be careful about selecting South Florida. The economy, here, is not doing so well, and though the cost of living has dropped tremendously since the recession begun (particularly in terms of rent and the price of homes), the standard of living has dropped as well. Miami-Dade county is faring a bit better than Broward and Palm Beach (all considered to be a part of the South Florida metropolitan area), but those who are successful in Miami-Dade county tend to be bi-lingual (English/Spanish or English/Creole) and have advanced degrees in education or medicine/public health. And, don't believe the hype. Almost every, single, 20- or 30-something I know with degrees are working two or more jobs, mostly due to the fact that their student loans are now coming due.

I have a masters degree in public administration and urban policy, but I work full-time with really good benefits at a local community college. It doesn't pay much, so I subsidize my full-time job with two, part-time jobs. The first is as a college-prep instructor, the second is as a tutor on the side, where I help college students with their papers and projects.

With South Florida, though, if you work hard to meet friends, you can really meet some nice people, but the networking opportunities, in terms of career development are difficult to come by because there are deep levels of distrust among the different racial/ethnic groups, but in some cases that can be surmounted.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,826,958 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by krock1dk View Post
If you go thru life not liking where you live because there are a FEW people you dont like, you will dislike everywhere. People are the same no matter where you go.
Many people are like that. They move from town to town and can't understand why every place they go disappoints them. Then they build up unrealistic expectations for the next place... which is bound to disappoint, too.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:04 AM
 
168 posts, read 380,615 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by krock1dk View Post
Come on. There has to be better reasons to hate the DC area than the ones you stated. If you go thru life not liking where you live because there are a FEW people you dont like, you will dislike everywhere. People are the same no matter where you go. Trust me on that. And jobs are hard to find everywhere in today's economy. If you want to move to Florida or Jersey or NY, then make it happen. Stop making yourself a victim of everyone and everything. I can think of some REAL reasons to hate a place: unsafe, pollution, crowded, etc. I lived in Northern Virginia (Sterling) for most of 2004, and if I could afford it I would easily move back. There is just too much to do in the DC area to get board. Think of the positive things: world-class cultural ammenities, stuff to do everywhere, Appalachain Mts nearby, the proximity to other major East Coast markets and what they offer for fun, etc. I just think you need to open your eyes more and most definately get out more.
Well, I've come to terms that I'm probably stuck here until August of next year. I have a better job and a better place to live than when I first posted this. I actually have roommates my age that seem to be normal. I also quit my second job. However, the things I don't like about the area still make me want to leave.

1) DC is not a real city in my opinion. It is a political center and that is it. There is no feel to DC. If I met someone from DC in another city, it would not be apparent to me that they are from DC like someone from NYC, NJ, Philly, Pittsburgh, Boston, Baltimore, etc.

2) The area is absolutely void of any working class or for lack of a better term "blue collar" people. I don't mean necessarily in income bracket, but in terms of mentality. I was raised with this mentality and associate mostly with people like this. You can argue this all you want, but I just don't see it. People here try to be overly "professional" in my opinion. They are always "on".

3) I really do not care for most of the amenities this area has to offer. I am not the kind of person that is into going to museums. I am not involved in politics to any degree so there is no draw there. North Jersey and NYC are far more diverse in my opinion if that is what you mean in terms of culture. What would I want to do in the Appalachians? The nearest real beaches are 3 or more hours away (this is a huge dislike. When I lived in NJ the shore was 90 minutes from my house depending on where I wanted to go, and if I lived in Florida, well, it's self explanatory).

4) It's expensive and cold. It has rained here how many out of the last days, all day? Only place that I would want to be that fits that description is North Jersey or NYC. Otherwise, I want to be somewhere warm where the sun is out for more that a total of 4 months out of the year.

I will say though that I like it here better than Pittsburgh where I also lived. You couldn't pay me to go back to that place (even worse weather, no jobs, nothing at all to do, no culture, no diversity, no good restaurants). The other things you mentioned about being reasons to not like somewhere (safety, pollution, crowding [don't know how that doesn't describe here]) wouldn't make me hate an area. I could really care less about safety at all and yes I have lived in unsafe areas. Hopefully the economy gets better and I can actually get a job somewhere I want to be. I am looking into getting my NJ teaching certificate and also adding a biology/science certificate to my FL license (they will actually hire for that unlike most subjects). Some people like this area, and while it is better for me now that a month or two ago, I can't see myself making another year here, let alone a lifetime.

Last edited by d-fens; 11-30-2009 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,091,992 times
Reputation: 6826
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-fens View Post
The area is absolutely void of any working class or for lack of a better term "blue collar" people. I don't mean necessarily in income bracket, but in terms of mentality. I was raised with this mentality and associate mostly with people like this. You can argue this all you want, but I just don't see it. People here try to be overly "professional" in my opinion. They are always "on"
There are a lot of working class areas in NoVA, particularly the further you move from DC. Woodbridge, Manassas, Stafford are a few.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 26,913,849 times
Reputation: 42861
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-fens View Post
The area is absolutely void of any working class or for lack of a better term "blue collar" people. I don't mean necessarily in income bracket, but in terms of mentality. I was raised with this mentality and associate mostly with people like this.
I don't know if I'd use the word "absolutely" but in general I agree. This is not a steel mill town. This has never been an industrial area.

Most cities are created to support shipyards or foundries or mines or some other blue collar endeavor. DC's industry, from the very beginning, has been politics and administration. Northern Virginia was home to horse farms. More recently, Nova's industry has become technology and research. None of these things are blue collar businesses.

Is this is a reason to hate the area? I guess it all depends on your POV. IMO it's something I find attractive. Mostly, it's just something that makes our metro area distinct. To me, having something distinctive about your town is a good thing. But I will agree that if you don't feel comfortable with "white collar" people you may not like it here.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:29 AM
 
5,071 posts, read 8,641,159 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-fens View Post
Well, I've come to terms that I'm probably stuck here until August of next year. I have a better job and a better place to live than when I first posted this. I actually have roommates my age that seem to be normal. I also quit my second job. However, the things I don't like about the area still make me want to leave.

1) DC is not a real city in my opinion. It is a political center and that is it. There is no feel to DC. If I met someone from DC in another city, it would not be apparent to me that they are from DC like someone from NYC, NJ, Philly, Pittsburgh, Boston, Baltimore, etc.

2) The area is absolutely void of any working class or for lack of a better term "blue collar" people. I don't mean necessarily in income bracket, but in terms of mentality. I was raised with this mentality and associate mostly with people like this. You can argue this all you want, but I just don't see it. People here try to be overly "professional" in my opinion. They are always "on".

3) I really do not care for most of the amenities this area has to offer. I am not the kind of person that is into going to museums. I am not involved in politics to any degree so there is no draw there. North Jersey and NYC are far more diverse in my opinion if that is what you mean in terms of culture. What would I want to do in the Appalachians? The nearest real beaches are 3 or more hours away (this is a huge dislike. When I lived in NJ the shore was 90 minutes from my house depending on where I wanted to go, and if I lived in Florida, well, it's self explanatory).

4) It's expensive and cold. It has rained here how many out of the last days, all day? Only place that I would want to be that fits that description is North Jersey or NYC. Otherwise, I want to be somewhere warm where the sun is out for more that a total of 4 months out of the year.

I will say though that I like it here better than Pittsburgh where I also lived. You couldn't pay me to go back to that place (even worse weather, no jobs, nothing at all to do, no culture, no diversity, no good restaurants). The other things you mentioned about being reasons to not like somewhere (safety, pollution, crowding [don't know how that doesn't describe here]) wouldn't make me hate an area. I could really care less about safety at all and yes I have lived in unsafe areas. Hopefully the economy gets better and I can actually get a job somewhere I want to be. I am looking into getting my NJ teaching certificate and also adding a biology/science certificate to my FL license (they will actually hire for that unlike most subjects). Some people like this area, and while it is better for me now that a month or two ago, I can't see myself making another year here, let alone a lifetime.
People like different places, so if this isn't your cup of tea, or mug of beer, good luck with making the best of things before you execute an exit strategy.

I will say that it's funny to claim that DC isn't a real city, when its basic design follows the model of a French urban planner (L'Enfant). There are many foreign visitors who prefer DC to other US cities precisely because it looks more like the European cities with which they're familiar. But I do understand the fact that some folks don't like DC because its primary reason to exist is as the nation's political center. People in other countries feel the same way about Brasilia or even Ottawa.

As the other poster noted, there are a lot of "blue collar" or middle-income workers in the area. In addition to the outlying suburban counties, DC and PG counties also have sizable black middle classes with working-class values. It tends to grate when posters ignore these people and suggest they don't exist, just because they personally detest white yuppies who live in Arlington or Bethesda. The main difference is that these folks have traditionally worked in service sector, rather than manufacturing, jobs.

Last edited by JD984; 11-30-2009 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: In the woods
3,315 posts, read 8,800,673 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I will say that it's funny to claim that DC isn't a real city, when its basic design followed by the model of a French urban planner (L'Enfant). There are many foreign visitors who prefer DC to other US cities precisely because it looks more like the cities with which they are familiar.
Actually, when L'Enfant designed DC, he made it like the Palace Versailles, following a pattern of sunbursts (i.e., DC's circles) and major and minor thoroughfares, like a garden and meant to be strolled, not driven about. It's one reason people get so confused driving around the city. It is a very different design unlike the urban (Latin) grid that follows a north-south and east-west axis (Philly, NYC, etc.) which is easier to maneuver about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
But I do understand the fact that some folks don't like DC because its primary reason to exist is as the nation's political center.
I kind of like the fact that DC is a little "nondescript" with it's functions as the nation's capitol. It makes it what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
As the other poster noted, there are a lot of "blue collar" or middle-income workers in the area. I . . The main difference is that these folks have traditionally worked in service sector, rather than manufacturing, jobs.
Good point . . . I was thinking about farming in VA (which someone mentioned earlier) but also thought about landscapers and contractors (building and construction). I suppose that once upon a time, there were factories in Alexandria along the water as well as fisherman and oyster farmers, but no more.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:42 PM
 
206 posts, read 400,972 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by movedoften View Post
To suggest that Government workers as a whole work harder and are underpaid compared to the private sector is absolutely ludicrous. I don't doubt that many work hard and I don't doubt many are extremely talented. However, the Federal Governemt, run by Federal employees is so inefficient it is scary. Those ineffeciencies are directly related to incompetence, tenured and secured employment status and a public sector work ethic. When was the last time the Post Office turned a profit? Any Private Company that was run like the Federal Government would be out of business.

For the record, inflation is simply a rise in the cost of goods and services.

Demand is the pressure consumers place on goods and services. Demand and scarcity can cause inflation.[/
If you're scared seeing federal employees in action you should see government contractors. I've worked on both sides and I can tell you the contractor I used to work for was far more inept, slimey, and wasteful than the government employees I work with today. Even worse is the fact that they were paid far more than government employees make. And this was no fly-by-night company, it was a major defense contractor. I can't speak for all parts of the Federal Government but I definitely feel like at least in DoD the people really care about the mission, are motivated by patriotism, and committed to doing a good job. There are lots of very smart people working on defense projects because it's what they love, not that they couldn't get hired elsewhere.

I think some parts of the federal government probably have more of the union mentality and are there to just punch the clock, but I don't know that it's close to the majority. And the Post Office is probably a bad example of bad government - it's run like a private business, does not run on taxpayer money, but is legislated to do things many private businesses would probably have discarded by now (One price to send anywhere in the country, Saturday delivery, bulk mail (junk mail)).
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