Why is foodie culture so lacking here? (Chesapeake, Arlington: leases, home)

[normie]

Originally Posted by ChristineVA

Considering that I've lived here for 45 years, when do you think this will happen? It has happened yet and, certainly, there were times when this area was much less transient than it is now.

Bit by bit, as each community ages. Leesburg, for example, has plenty of locally-owned cafes and coffee shops because it's been around for a long time. Ashburn doesn't have as many as Leesburg, but they're starting to arrive. Maybe that's not what happens everywhere but it's something I see in a lot of places.

It's not like it's a black and white phenomenon, just something I see happening a lot. The economy is a major factor too. Locally owned restaurants are less likely to open right now because they're risky and people don't have money to eat out. Also, from what I've observed, these things seem to come in waves. The country towns start out with locally owned diners. Then the chains dominate for awhile when the suburbs arrive. But as times passes the locally owned restaurants seem to pop up all over the place and to thrive.

Here's an example. My neighborhood is about 15 years old. We started with a Subway, a Papa John's, a Dunkin Donuts... Early on we got a Chinese restaurant, but that was about it for a locally-owned restaurant. Recently, we added Hooked (sushi), and Velocity Five (Sports Bar). Hooked did so well it's now moved down the road to a bigger site. The most recent addition: the old Video Warehouse became Carmine's Restaurant. I guess the success of these new places is mostly about the tastes of the people living in the neighborhood; in another neighborhood such places might not do as well if the locals only like to eat at Dunkin Donuts.

BTW, I personally have nothing against chains. Some chain restaurants have excellent food, and some locally owned coffee shops and diners are god awful. I'd rather eat at La Madeleine's than many of the local joints any day.

[claremarie]

Chains are not necessarily a bad thing. Panera, for instance, is much better on many dimensions than many "independent" sandwich shops. You get your food fast, it's reasonably tasty and healthy, they have fireplaces and free wifi, and (at least in our area) our regular server starts pouring milks as soon as she sees our three big boys standing in the line. What's not to like?

[cdmurphy]

Originally Posted by normie

Here's an example. My neighborhood is about 15 years old. We started with a Subway, a Papa John's, a Dunkin Donuts... Early on we got a Chinese restaurant, but that was about it for a locally-owned restaurant. Recently, we added Hooked (sushi), and Velocity Five (Sports Bar). Hooked did so well it's now moved down the road to a bigger site.

And now people in Brambleton are thrilled that we are getting a new restaurant run by the Hooked folks... it will be on the other side of the movie theater from Blue Ridge Grill (another local chain), and is hopefully opening up in December.

You are right that local restaurants have it especially rough these days. The Ashburn area has seem some good places close - Cafe Rumi, Bean Scene, Sweetest Chef, Village Grill, Callaloo, Tijuana Flats, Spicetown, Java Jones, Domani, etc. etc...the list goes on and on. If people don't have a lot of money to spend, and don't go out that often, they are more likely to take their dollars somewhere 'safe' - to a chain or a local place they've been before - rather than to an untested place.

[athousandlogins]

I enjoyed this Virginia Postrel column, "In Praise of Chain Stores." There is nothing inherently superior about a locally-owned business. The take-home point is this:

Stores don’t give places their character. Terrain and weather and culture do. Familiar retailers may take some of the discovery out of travel—to the consternation of journalists looking for obvious local color—but by holding some of the commercial background constant, chains make it easier to discern the real differences that define a place: the way, for instance, that people in Chandler [Arizona] come out to enjoy the summer twilight, when the sky glows purple and the dry air cools.

[g3org3]

Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley

What's really struck me about the D.C. area (particularly the suburbs) is the overall lack of creative, entrepreneurial foodie culture. I'm talking experimental little restaurants, specialty "foodie" stores, etc. This phenomenon is particularly striking when you consider the beyond enormous population size here (for instance, ask yourself how many KCMO/KS populations would fit into the entire DC metro population space).

In 1930 there were only 25,000 people in Fairfax County; in 1950, still less than 100,000. Not much of a base on which to build a "local" foodie culture, considering the transient nature and size of the current population (1,000,000). Corn pudding anyone? Barbeque from the Dixie Pig?

If I were a creative entrepreneur looking to open an experimental restaurant, I'd head for San Francisco, LA, or New York.

[normie]

Originally Posted by g3org3

If I were a creative entrepreneur looking to open an experimental restaurant, I'd head for San Francisco, LA, or New York.

Not me--those are all great cities but for my two cents the smart money is going to build entertainment venues and restaurants out in the western suburbs of Nova.

I look at it this way. Young wealthy singles are moving out there in record number. They hate driving as much as anyone, so they're going to want places nearby. Young + wealthy + single also equals the same crowd that most appreciates experimental cuisine and unusual places. And the most important factor of all... experimental cuisine and unusual places are in relatively short supply out in the burbs. For now, that is.

So let's add it all up. There's a high demand, there's a lot of money flowing into the area, there's a transportation crunch (making people want a place in their own neighborhood), and there's a short supply. Man, someone's going to come up with the right combination and make a fortune catering to that crowd.

[Alicia Bradley]

Originally Posted by claremarie

Chains are not necessarily a bad thing. Panera, for instance, is much better on many dimensions than many "independent" sandwich shops. You get your food fast, it's reasonably tasty and healthy, they have fireplaces and free wifi, and (at least in our area) our regular server starts pouring milks as soon as she sees our three big boys standing in the line. What's not to like?

Panera's out of St. Louis. Used to be known at the St. Louis Bread Company. The locations in St. Louis are still known as such, and it's where they test new menu items (along with the Columbia, MO location). I don't have anything against chains, per se - one of the points of my original post was that the medium-sized Midwestern cities where I've lived have a much more thriving creative/entrepreneurial food culture than this area - including the active creation of new chains. I could list tens of new "gourmet-lite" chain concepets in D.C. that emerged out of the Midwest. Couldn't do so in the other direction, though.

The Clyde's and Great American Restaurant groups (as well as the usually decent California Tortilla) are a little late arriving, but still a good sign. (Others have pointed out some of Clyde's and GAR's individual projects in other posts in this thread.)

[cdmurphy]

Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley

The Clyde's and Great American Restaurant groups (as well as the usually decent California Tortilla) are a little late arriving, but still a good sign. (Others have pointed out some of Clyde's and GAR's individual projects in other posts in this thread.)

The first Clyde's opened in 1963, and they also own Old Ebbitt Grill, which opened in 1856. Great American Restaurants started in 1976.

[Alicia Bradley]

Originally Posted by cdmurphy

The first Clyde's opened in 1963, and they also own Old Ebbitt Grill, which opened in 1856. Great American Restaurants started in 1976.

The founders of Clyde's purchased the Old Ebbitt Grill in 1970. My point was that both Clyde's and GAR have been creating and expanding new concepts relatively rapidly in recent years (a la Chicago's Lettuce Entertain You group, which has quite a few restaurants in the D.C. area - Wildfire, Big Bowl, Mon Ami Gabi, Community Canteen), and that's a great sign for the area. (I suppose I should have said "many of Clyde's and GAR's slickest concepts are new arrivals.")

[Stephen 81]

Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley

Panera's out of St. Louis. Used to be known at the St. Louis Bread Company. The locations in St. Louis are still known as such, and it's where they test new menu items (along with the Columbia, MO location). I don't have anything against chains, per se - one of the points of my original post was that the medium-sized Midwestern cities where I've lived have a much more thriving creative/entrepreneurial food culture than this area - including the active creation of new chains. I could list tens of new "gourmet-lite" chain concepets in D.C. that emerged out of the Midwest. Couldn't do so in the other direction, though.

Yeah, the only DC-area chain that has really exploded recently (that I can think of) is Five Guys.

Weren't most of the original fast food chains from the Midwest, too? I know McDonald's is from IL, and Wendy's is from OH, and apparently Hardee's is from St. Louis (correction, it's from NC). Our regional fast food chain seems to have mostly died (RIP Roy Rogers).