Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-07-2009, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,603 posts, read 77,254,359 times
Reputation: 19066

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
See page 30 of this report.

http://www.acps.k12.va.us/board/wabe.pdf (broken link)

FCPS per pupil spending is much lower than Alexandria City, Arlington and Falls Church, and is just a bit lower than Montgomery.
However, Fairfax County is also the second-wealthiest county in the United States, trumped only by its western neighbor of Loudoun County (which ironically has lower housing prices, but we won't go there). Generally speaking if you congregate a lot of upper-middle-class professional families in an area the surrounding school districts will also benefit. Let's not be delusional. Most of the better-performing schools in the area are also in the affluent areas. Most in those areas have the resources available to pay for private tutoring, prep courses, etc. for their children, and most college graduates tend to beget more college graduates. A student born into a household where one or more parents went to college is also more likely to strive to attend college themselves (hence desiring to perform better in school).

Fairfax County is an incredibly wealthy area; even the "shady" parts of unincoporated Falls Church, Springfield, Annandale, or unincorporated Alexandria are still light years ahead of many other communities in terms of median household income. Wealthy educated people are more driven themselves, so they instill these values of hard work into their children. I'd hazard a guess to say that the reason why some schools are rated so highly in Fairfax County is because they have a high concentration of upper-middle-class pupils from college-educated families, not that the teachers/facilities there are necessary "the best money can buy." I hate to say this, but in my own alma mater it was generally a self-fulfilling prophecy where the school's wealthiest 1/3 (including myself) are also the ones viewed as having the most success while the bottom 1/3 on the socioeconomic ladder are also the ones who have already been in prison, didn't graduate high school, or are already awaiting their second or third child from a second or third father. It's a vicious cycle of the poor having difficulty climbing into the middle-class, but this is caused due to internal factors of one's community and family life---not because of "bad schools", as in order to make that argument valid then the 1/3 of us who were "wealthy" (bear in mind it was a working-class community to begin with) would have also had to have had limited success there. Most of us turned out wonderfully, indicating that the SCHOOL isn't failing---society is.

I don't want this to turn into a heated racial/class debate, but look at the "best" schools. Funny how they're always in affluent areas, isn't it? What a "coincidence."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-07-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,793 posts, read 15,231,892 times
Reputation: 4492
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre View Post
However, Fairfax County is also the second-wealthiest county in the United States, trumped only by its western neighbor of Loudoun County (which ironically has lower housing prices, but we won't go there). Generally speaking if you congregate a lot of upper-middle-class professional families in an area the surrounding school districts will also benefit. Let's not be delusional. Most of the better-performing schools in the area are also in the affluent areas. Most in those areas have the resources available to pay for private tutoring, prep courses, etc. for their children, and most college graduates tend to beget more college graduates. A student born into a household where one or more parents went to college is also more likely to strive to attend college themselves (hence desiring to perform better in school).

Fairfax County is an incredibly wealthy area; even the "shady" parts of unincoporated Falls Church, Springfield, Annandale, or unincorporated Alexandria are still light years ahead of many other communities in terms of median household income. Wealthy educated people are more driven themselves, so they instill these values of hard work into their children. I'd hazard a guess to say that the reason why some schools are rated so highly in Fairfax County is because they have a high concentration of upper-middle-class pupils from college-educated families, not that the teachers/facilities there are necessary "the best money can buy." I hate to say this, but in my own alma mater it was generally a self-fulfilling prophecy where the school's wealthiest 1/3 (including myself) are also the ones viewed as having the most success while the bottom 1/3 on the socioeconomic ladder are also the ones who have already been in prison, didn't graduate high school, or are already awaiting their second or third child from a second or third father. It's a vicious cycle of the poor having difficulty climbing into the middle-class, but this is caused due to internal factors of one's community and family life---not because of "bad schools", as in order to make that argument valid then the 1/3 of us who were "wealthy" (bear in mind it was a working-class community to begin with) would have also had to have had limited success there. Most of us turned out wonderfully, indicating that the SCHOOL isn't failing---society is.

I don't want this to turn into a heated racial/class debate, but look at the "best" schools. Funny how they're always in affluent areas, isn't it? What a "coincidence."
I agree ScranBarre, and your message here (not to sidetrack the topic) is a very good defense to those who would advocate merit pay for school staffs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 05:53 PM
 
12,905 posts, read 15,566,832 times
Reputation: 9392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre View Post
I don't want this to turn into a heated racial/class debate, but look at the "best" schools. Funny how they're always in affluent areas, isn't it? What a "coincidence."
No argument from me. As I've said on this thread and another, there's really very little to no difference in the curriculum and Prince William County vs. Fairfax County schools. There is a pretty significant difference in scores though. Totally has to do with economic factors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,915 posts, read 31,249,164 times
Reputation: 7137
Parents in affluent areas are able to afford tutors, and other extra curricular enrichment, which does have a net positive effect with respect to the test scores, so it's not always a function of more resources or of the school itself, but the community in which the school is located. Tutors for remedial and enrichment work, extra sports classes, dance classes, coaches, etc. are all elements that factor into the complete education lifestyle in an affluent district. Children do not come home and play on the street with their friends, but may go to lessons, tutoring, additional enrichment in the form of foreign language training not taught in school, etc. This is especially the case when both parents work outside the home, but I know people who have SAHMs and nannies because of the work involved with managing the children and the enrichment/tutoring after school.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare
(As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)

City-Data Terms of Service
City-Data FAQs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,118,638 times
Reputation: 6920
bmwguydc - that's a very small percentage of Fairfax County parents you're talking about. There are a lot of outside sports activities but that's true pretty much everywhere in America now. Most families in Fairfax County's are regular folks. Your description of things here is about as accurate as the assertion that all families in Southern California live like what you see on "The OC". In fact, most of the kids I know around here are smart and diligent enough they don't need tutors. We also have plenty of foreign language programs, open to all, in the schools so they don't need that from the outside either. The real advantage kids here have is parents who value education, read, and speak intelligently at the dinner table. Kids learn by example.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,915 posts, read 31,249,164 times
Reputation: 7137
Actually, I am speaking from experience, with friends and family in a few districts in Fairfax County. I do not recall saying that it was the predominant reason as to why affluent districts tend to perform better, nor that every family who lived in such a district did the exact same thing, but there is a component to such extracurricular work that positively influences an individual student's test scores.

At the high school level, for example, SAT review courses are commonplace for most college-bound students, in many districts, and the least expensive of them are a couple of hundred dollars, something that not everyone in an economically disadvantaged area may be able to afford. That's hardly a measure of privilege to the likes to which my prior post was compared. And, SAT review courses are a drop in the bucket, compared to what some I know spend at the elementary and preschool levels, most of whom I would describe as "average" families, not extraordinarily wealthy for the area.

I agree that sports and dance classes are pretty commonplace throughout the country, but I am specifically speaking to extra effort to gain an advantage on college admissions via positions on a high school team, or perhaps even to qualify for an athletic-oriented scholarship. It's not by chance that people become the top athlete in their high school anymore, nor is it solely based upon inherent ability, but there is a training component that comes into play. And, it's not a function of the school system that provides for such in most cases, it's the parents.

Perhaps the people in my frame of reference, who are not in one district, tend to be a bit hyper, both in terms of their own educational background, and in terms of providing the most that they can for their children. On a system-wide level, the percentage is not likely to be that high of such families, in any large school system. However, when such families tend to cluster in specific school districts, that does tend to have a higher net effect on the test scores. That was my original point, not speaking to the extreme, as it appears that was the context in which that post was taken.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare
(As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)

City-Data Terms of Service
City-Data FAQs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,118,638 times
Reputation: 6920
I don't think it's much different here than in most affluent suburbs of major cities. In Naperville, Westchester, Buck's County, and Montgomery County you're going to find the same type of thing. The point I was trying to make is that those "extras" don't contribute to kids' success nearly as much as what goes on inside the home. Don't confuse correlation with causation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,915 posts, read 31,249,164 times
Reputation: 7137
Again, I never said that it was a phenomenon exclusive to Fairfax County. Please don't interject qualifiers to statements that I have made regarding affluent districts, and their performance. Also, I used a Virginia-based district of which I have knowledge because this is a Northern Virginia board, so that keeps it relevant, otherwise this would be a thread for the Education forum.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare
(As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)

City-Data Terms of Service
City-Data FAQs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-07-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,118,638 times
Reputation: 6920
So bmwguydc - how many kids do you have or have you had in our schools?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-08-2009, 01:23 AM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,921,240 times
Reputation: 1278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffy62 View Post
I can only speak to Pr. Wm.'s gifted program. Your child if identified as "gifted" will be pulled out for an hour or hour and half each week. In the middle school level, a "gifted" child is normally placed in "extended" math and Language Arts. Extended math in 6th grade combines all of 6th grade and half of 7th grade curriculum. Extended math in 7th grade combines the latter half of 7th grade and 8th grade curriculum. Your child will be taking Algebra in 8th grade. If your child does not get into "extended" math -- your child will not be taking Algebra in 8th grade.

Both my children went through the gifted program and I was able to supplement their education at home. You have to decide what is best for your child. Home schooling and private school were options we decided against.
Oh my gosh, Algebra in 8th grade is considered the advanced program in Prince William?! That's terrible! In Fairfax gifted kids take it 7th grade and have for over a decade. Some kids take it even earlier.

It's a shame that Prince William has dumbed down their math program to this extent and even worse they have adopted the worst math textbook series Math Investigations, over the objections of the parents. Once again, political correctness prohibits the teaching of real math.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Virginia > Northern Virginia
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top