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This is spot-on, actually. Just look at this sub-forum as a prime example. Most on here who criticize me when I comment on how difficult it is to survive here on one salary, even in a no-frills 1-BR apartment in a far-flung suburb like Reston, are mostly dual-income householders themselves, so they honestly have no idea what it's like to be making under 40% of the area's median household income because they and their spouse, combined, make thrice what I do, if not much more.
Since I would have been paying nearly $1,350/month to renew my lease across the street from you I have now moved to another part of Reston and pay $1,100/month (one of the cheapest rents I could find for a 1-BR place). The trade-off? My neighborhood isn't exactly the best. I hear people shouting and arguing in the parking lot from time to time. Sometimes I wonder if English is officially Reston's second language (my neighborhood grocery store seems to validate that). The interior hallways here always smell nasty, even though they are cleaned daily or bi-daily. There is a low-income housing project (Cedar Ridge Apartments) next-door to me, and sometimes driving through there at night can be intimidating with large groups of people who don't exactly look like Einstein loitering and staring at you as you drive by. There is an elementary school nearby with the rudest "hoochie mommies" I have ever seen who literally take over the street chatting with one another, leaving SUV doors open, jaywalking without looking for oncoming traffic as they text, etc. My complex itself is actually well-maintained and has nice amenities, but they've now recently had to secure the entrance to the fitness center because people from the projects were wandering in. If it wasn't in a borderline "hood" it would probably go for the $1,300/month range for a 1-BR, but they have to knock down the prices to get people to realize it's a nice place if you don't mind being stuck in this out-of-the-way corner of town.
Not getting a very good "bang-for-your buck" factor is something I'll never be able to give NoVA a free pass on. To my peers who have coupled up and are now shacked up, each earning $40,000-$50,000 and living together in a 1-BR place, life is much better. Telling a single person earning $40,000 he "needs" to room with a stranger just to afford living in a sub-par place like Reston is ludicrous. I'd expect to be hunkering down with strangers in NYC, L.A., San Francisco, or even Arlington for that matter because they all offer so much for young people. Reston? Ridiculous. I refuse to share cramped quarters with a potential lush or slob for the "luxury" of living in America's most famous "fake town." Perhaps if and when the dinosaur NIMBYs here let Metro come in and totally overhaul the place I'll feel differently.
This entire area is slanted against singles. Since I'm not going to couple up myself anytime soon after being hurt thrice in rapid succession since moving here, I suppose I'm just damned to continue struggling to pay the bills to live in the "fake town." It just really irks me that even the far-out suburbs here are so expensive. In nearly every major city in America rent prices steadily decline the further and further you travel outwards from the downtown core. That's not the case here, and I still can't figure out why.
You keep saying you would expect to be hunkering down with strangers in NYC, LA, San Fran or DC/Arlington but opted to lease another place in Reston? I've mentioned several times before and you have also shown that you can find 1 bedroom places in Arlington for $1000-1300 a month.
You keep saying Reston isn't worth the price but obviously the 60,000ish or more people that live out there are willing to pay for it. Do you think only neighborhoods within LA and San Francisco city limits are expensive in their respective metropolitan regions? I have a friend that lives in highly suburban Palo Alto, CA (at least 30 miles from San Fran) and pays $1,500 for HIS SHARE of a 2 bedroom in a mediocre complex. He has friends that pay similar prices in San Mateo, Burlingame, and other various Silicon Valley burbs. People pay high amounts to live in suburban locales like Westchester NY, Long Island, suburban Boston, etc.
Also, have you ever considered that rent prices might stay high in Reston and points further out because of the massive number of jobs located in the suburban parts of this region? There's something like 500,000 or more jobs in Fairfax County, many located in Tysons and extending along the Toll Road right smack through Reston and out around Dulles. Seems like a logical explanation to me.
Last edited by NOVAmtneer82; 06-01-2010 at 05:14 PM..
This entire area is slanted against singles. Since I'm not going to couple up myself anytime soon after being hurt thrice in rapid succession since moving here, I suppose I'm just damned to continue struggling to pay the bills to live in the "fake town." It just really irks me that even the far-out suburbs here are so expensive. In nearly every major city in America rent prices steadily decline the further and further you travel outwards from the downtown core. That's not the case here, and I still can't figure out why.
I've had a lot of people tell me to get a roommate. It would be one thing if I were in my 20s and fresh out of school. But a guy in his 30s with no debt should not need to live with another person in order to find affordable housing. Nor should one have to live all the way out in Reston. I realize that there will always be trade-offs and that you have to be willing to make sacrifices in order to live where you want. But the more I hear about DC and NOVA, the more I feel like the sacrifices aren't worth it. I may find plenty of jobs in my field there, but if my salary is just enough to pay my bills without much left over, if I'm forced to live far from the city in order to find something affordable, well that takes a lot of the enjoyment out of living there. I don't want to be in a position where I'm breaking even or saving only a small amount each month, where I feel like I don't have a huge cushion in case there's an emergency. And based on what I'm seeing as far as the rents and what my expected salary would be, from purely a numbers standpoint, I don't see how to make it work without having to make major sacrifices, only some of which I'm willing to make. And I definitely don't want to get into a relationship just to have the extra income coming in.
You keep saying you would expect to be hunkering down with strangers in NYC, LA, San Fran or DC/Arlington but opted to lease another place in Reston? I've mentioned several times before and you have also shown that you can find 1 bedroom places in Arlington for $1000-1300 a month.
Yes. I leased again in Reston due to current uncertainties regarding my work location as well as the fact that the places I attempted to secure nearer to The District had no availability when I was looking to relocate. Where I'm living now still isn't ideal, but I just keep trucking along telling myself either someday Reston will become a decent place to live once the anti-Metro/anti-progress NIMBYs die off or that perhaps next year the places I chose closer in will have openings. Telling me that there are places in DC and Arlington for the same price as Reston still doesn't justify to me as to why there isn't some sort of "discount" for Reston being so far-flung from the city (contrary to popular belief Reston Town Center is not "the city"). In New York City for each exit west you head on I-80 into New Jersey, rent prices drop somewhat (to the point where many now commute from NEPA into NYC). Hoboken is outrageously expensive. Netcong? Not so much. The reason? Your "reward" for locating yourself so far from the city is a lighter hit on your wallet. The same can be said for Boston, Philadelphia, and many other major cities. Here in DC even 25 miles outside the city rent prices remain comparable to prices in the city. I don't get it. The city has so much more to offer than Reston. Shouldn't it be more expensive as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82
You keep saying Reston isn't worth the price but obviously the 60,000ish or more people that live out there are willing to pay for it. Do you think only neighborhoods within LA and San Francisco city limits are expensive in their respective metropolitan regions? I have a friend that lives in highly suburban Palo Alto, CA (at least 30 miles from San Fran) and pays $1,500 for HIS SHARE of a 2 bedroom in a mediocre complex. He has friends that pay similar prices in San Mateo, Burlingame, and other various Silicon Valley burbs. People pay high amounts to live in suburban locales like Westchester NY, Long Island, suburban Boston, etc.
I'm sorry, but I won't for one second compare Reston to Silicon Valley, Westchester County, or Long Island in terms of quality-of-life offerings. Why not throw Beverly Hills or Malibu in while you're at it as well? I really never will understand why people would be willing to pay such astronomical amounts to live in car-centric and sterile suburban areas other than just for "prestige" (which is precisely why people pay seven figures for homes in Great Falls or The Hamptons, for example). There is no "prestige" factor to Reston. Hell, we have low-income housing projects here. This nation's love affair with gasoline and building further and further outwards (instead of upwards) is going to damn us all when fuel prices spike before alternative energies are successfully researched and implemented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82
Also, have you ever considered that rent prices might stay high in Reston and points further out because of the massive number of jobs located in the suburban parts of this region? There's something like 500,000 or more jobs in Fairfax County, many located in Tysons and extending along the Toll Road right smack through Reston and out around Dulles. Seems like a logical explanation to me.
It was also very socially irresponsible for our county's leaders and planners to place so many jobs in suburban areas. Heavy suburb-to-suburb commuting is precisely why mass transit is so largely ineffective in this region, leading to us having the dubious title of the nation's second-worst congestion. I guess I'll just never understand the "allure" of paying 50% of my income to live in a sterile suburban enclave and then drive in gridlock to a sterile suburban office park. It hasn't been fun being in my early-20s, living in Reston, and working in Tysons Corner. Why wasn't a concerted effort ever made to more densely concentrate jobs into a more centralized employment center in this region to more successfully plan mass transit lines and build better suburbs? Do you all have any idea how many billions upon billions of dollars it will now take to "fix" the infrastructural mess that is NoVA outside the Beltway? Instead of working in DC we have many people working in Tysons Corner, Arlington, Falls Church, Reston, Herndon, and many other major employment areas. Hell, with BRAC we'll have thousands more clogging roads to work in yet another new suburban employment center ill-serviced by heavy transit.
Do you mean to tell me that the only reason why people are expected to pay so much to live in Reston is so that they can have a short commute time? Why is so much emphasis in this area placed upon work?
Metro won't change much. Reston will always be a chain restaurant paradise.
It's a shame, too, that nobody on this sub-forum sees anything inherently wrong with that, either. I can't wait for Thursday. Friends and I are going to share great times at Jimmy's Old Town Tavern in Herndon followed by checking out a Michael Jackson act at the Herndon Festival. Old Town Herndon may be so small you'll miss it if you sneeze, but it packs so much more coziness and warmth than sterile and corporate Reston Town Center will ever hope to achieve.
I'm trying to decide whether to move to DC or Atlanta. If I moved to DC, I would most likely end up living in NOVA, probably in the Reston area. If I moved to Atlanta, I'd be in the Dunwoody area. I've been weighing the pros and cons of each city and need help deciding.
DC:
Pros:
- Lots of IT jobs
- Lots of culture
- Close to family
- Nice summers, except for the humidity
- More cultured and educated population
Cons:
- HIGH cost of living
- Horrible traffic
- Unfriendly people
- Most IT jobs require security clearance
- Competitive atmosphere
- Humid summers and occasional snow (this past winter was abnormal)
Atlanta:
Pros:
- Low cost of living
- Southern hospitality
- Lots of big employers
Cons:
- Not as many IT jobs as DC
- Horrible traffic
- Brutally hot, humid summers
- More rain
- Farther from family - Surrounded by Georgia
So if you were a single 30something Type B person who doesn't have kids, works in IT, and would prefer to be close to family, which would you recommend? I'm having a really hard time because even though DC seems like it would be better for my career, the cost of living there TERRIFIES me and I'm not sure my salary would make up for it.
Here's the other wrinkle. My job will be ending soon. While it would be ideal to have a job lined up before moving, I doubt I'll be able to land one in time. Since I'll have to look for a new job no matter where I go or I stay in my current location, I figure I might as well move to the city I want to live in. That way, I can at least have a local address to put on my resume.
LMAO @ the "surrounded by Georgia" con. I have some potentially disturbing news for you my friend, Atlanta is actually IN Georgia too-.
I would easily go with Atlanta. I don't know about DC but airfare rates out of Atlanta are great! Atlanta is more laid back as well.
Last edited by NorthDeKalb; 06-01-2010 at 06:27 PM..
I've had a lot of people tell me to get a roommate. It would be one thing if I were in my 20s and fresh out of school. But a guy in his 30s with no debt should not need to live with another person in order to find affordable housing. Nor should one have to live all the way out in Reston. I realize that there will always be trade-offs and that you have to be willing to make sacrifices in order to live where you want. But the more I hear about DC and NOVA, the more I feel like the sacrifices aren't worth it. I may find plenty of jobs in my field there, but if my salary is just enough to pay my bills without much left over, if I'm forced to live far from the city in order to find something affordable, well that takes a lot of the enjoyment out of living there. I don't want to be in a position where I'm breaking even or saving only a small amount each month, where I feel like I don't have a huge cushion in case there's an emergency. And based on what I'm seeing as far as the rents and what my expected salary would be, from purely a numbers standpoint, I don't see how to make it work without having to make major sacrifices, only some of which I'm willing to make. And I definitely don't want to get into a relationship just to have the extra income coming in.
Sadly your own analysis is spot-on. For many singles this area isn't really that enjoyable. Anonymous703 is my former neighbor, who lived directly across the street from me in Reston. He's not much older than me. The difference? He's coupled, so he and his better half have twice the earning capacity I do with comparable fixed expenditures, which means while they may not "love" Reston at least they can "enjoy" it to some extent. I've watched in amazement as so many of my peers who moved here single coupled up so quickly, and in some cases I do wonder if it was for financial reasons instead of just purely for love. The median household income in this area is over $100,000. I don't know a whole lot of singles besides attorneys, executives, physicians, etc. who command such salaries on their own. However, I do know many singles who make $60,000-$80,000 salaries. Combined with a spouse making that same amount? BAM! That's one high-earning couple (and with so many couples like that in the area, housing prices are being targeted towards them---not singles).
I know of people who do room with others even in far-flung Reston or Herndon, and none are very happy with their living arrangements. I am quite envious of peers of mine who live in urban neighborhoods in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Harrisburg, earn a similar salary to what I command, and live in 1-BR apartments in safe neighborhoods of each of those cities (comfortably, may I add) while I can barely tread water financially over 20 miles outside the city in DC. I'm just asking myself "is it worth it to pay more to live in Reston than in Philadelphia or Baltimore?", and increasingly I'm drawing a blank, not knowing how chain restaurants and parking lots equate to a better quality-of-life. I cringe to think that on my salary I could be living in Pittsburgh's Squirrel Hill, Philly's Manayunk, Midtown Harrisburg, or Little Italy in Baltimore. Here? I get Reston. It just doesn't add up to me. If I'm going to struggle and sacrifice, then where is the "payoff?" My one friend is a financial advisor in Pittsburgh. On a similar salary she's living in the heart of the city. Another friend is a political analyst in Harrisburg. He's living in a historic rowhome near to thriving nightlife. I just benchmark myself to them, smell the curry in my hallway, look at the chain restaurants all around me, and hear booming car stereos and wonder "so when can I match their quality-of-life here in NoVA?" I simply can't answer that question.
. Telling me that there are places in DC and Arlington for the same price as Reston still doesn't justify to me as to why there isn't some sort of "discount" for Reston being so far-flung from the city (contrary to popular belief Reston Town Center is not "the city"). In New York City for each exit west you head on I-80 into New Jersey, rent prices drop somewhat (to the point where many now commute from NEPA into NYC). Hoboken is outrageously expensive. Netcong? Not so much. The reason? Your "reward" for locating yourself so far from the city is a lighter hit on your wallet. The same can be said for Boston, Philadelphia, and many other major cities. Here in DC even 25 miles outside the city rent prices remain comparable to prices in the city. I don't get it. The city has so much more to offer than Reston. Shouldn't it be more expensive as well?
I don't want to get this thread off-track from the original discussion of the merits of DC compared to Atlanta...but Reston, as you know, is minutes (or a few miles at least, given the traffic) away from Tysons Corner and the Dulles Tech Corridor which are essentially the two major job centers in the entire DC region including the District itself. So while there may indeed be fewer socializing opportunities in that area, it's certainly where a plurality of jobs are.
I don't know Atlanta enough to know of any suburban equivalents but I can say that the situation is similar out in King of Prussia, PA, the "Tysons Corner" of Philly.
Yes. I leased again in Reston due to current uncertainties regarding my work location as well as the fact that the places I attempted to secure nearer to The District had no availability when I was looking to relocate. Where I'm living now still isn't ideal, but I just keep trucking along telling myself either someday Reston will become a decent place to live once the anti-Metro/anti-progress NIMBYs die off or that perhaps next year the places I chose closer in will have openings. Telling me that there are places in DC and Arlington for the same price as Reston still doesn't justify to me as to why there isn't some sort of "discount" for Reston being so far-flung from the city (contrary to popular belief Reston Town Center is not "the city"). In New York City for each exit west you head on I-80 into New Jersey, rent prices drop somewhat (to the point where many now commute from NEPA into NYC). Hoboken is outrageously expensive. Netcong? Not so much. The reason? Your "reward" for locating yourself so far from the city is a lighter hit on your wallet. The same can be said for Boston, Philadelphia, and many other major cities. Here in DC even 25 miles outside the city rent prices remain comparable to prices in the city. I don't get it. The city has so much more to offer than Reston. Shouldn't it be more expensive as well?
I'm sorry, but I won't for one second compare Reston to Silicon Valley, Westchester County, or Long Island in terms of quality-of-life offerings. Why not throw Beverly Hills or Malibu in while you're at it as well? I really never will understand why people would be willing to pay such astronomical amounts to live in car-centric and sterile suburban areas other than just for "prestige" (which is precisely why people pay seven figures for homes in Great Falls or The Hamptons, for example). There is no "prestige" factor to Reston. Hell, we have low-income housing projects here. This nation's love affair with gasoline and building further and further outwards (instead of upwards) is going to damn us all when fuel prices spike before alternative energies are successfully researched and implemented.
It was also very socially irresponsible for our county's leaders and planners to place so many jobs in suburban areas. Heavy suburb-to-suburb commuting is precisely why mass transit is so largely ineffective in this region, leading to us having the dubious title of the nation's second-worst congestion. I guess I'll just never understand the "allure" of paying 50% of my income to live in a sterile suburban enclave and then drive in gridlock to a sterile suburban office park. It hasn't been fun being in my early-20s, living in Reston, and working in Tysons Corner. Why wasn't a concerted effort ever made to more densely concentrate jobs into a more centralized employment center in this region to more successfully plan mass transit lines and build better suburbs? Do you all have any idea how many billions upon billions of dollars it will now take to "fix" the infrastructural mess that is NoVA outside the Beltway? Instead of working in DC we have many people working in Tysons Corner, Arlington, Falls Church, Reston, Herndon, and many other major employment areas. Hell, with BRAC we'll have thousands more clogging roads to work in yet another new suburban employment center ill-serviced by heavy transit.
Do you mean to tell me that the only reason why people are expected to pay so much to live in Reston is so that they can have a short commute time? Why is so much emphasis in this area placed upon work?
Ok I was trying to help make sense of things but never mind... Have you ever traveled to the West Coast? Are you seriously going to compare Beverly Hills and Malibu to the suburban parts of Silicon Valley that I just referenced? I should have expected this based on someone that compares the most urban neighborhoods in Pittsburgh to suburban parts of western Fairfax County.
Although places like Palo Alto, Los Altos, Burlingame etc are great communities they are SUBURBS full of that tract housing, chains, and upscale independent establishments that cater to "poser" like people that you dislike so much. White Plains? What is so great about that place in your eye? It is 30 miles from New York which is 10 or so further than Reston is from DC. It is also anchored by a major mall. It isn't a lot cheaper than New York. Long Island? It's expensive as well. Pasadena, Garden Grove, parts of Orange County like Irvine..yep they're expensive as well.
I also don't know where you're getting that Reston is on par expense wise with DC and Arlington!? Most 1 bedrooms in decent DC/Arlington neighborhoods are considerably more expensive than what is found in most of Reston sans the immediate Town Center area. Sure there are a few exceptions (as I've pointed out to you) but overall if you think Reston is outrageous, then you haven't seen anything in comparison to parts of north Arlington, DC, Bethesda, etc. That is completely leaving out the higher tax rates in the latter two. I know people that pay 2400 for a 1 bedroom with a den in Ballston. There are 2 bedroom condos in Clarendon and Court House that sell for 450k or more. Again, minus a few upscale complexes within walking distance to that "fake" Town Center that you despise so much you don't find that in Reston. I'm still trying to figure out why you hate RTC so much..All it does is cater to the affluent demographics that were already in Reston long before the concrete was poured. In my opinion Reston is a nice place, but I have yet to meet anyone that has moved there thinking it is urban.
P.S. if you're going to keep singling out Reston and its immediate surrounds as examples of what you dislike in life then stop making general references to "this area." There is certainly a lot more to this region than the one portion of it that you occupy. Example: "sadly this area isn't enjoyable for many singles." Maybe to YOU Reston isn't enjoyable to many singles but 1. Reston in no way is representative of Northern Virginia as a whole and 2. there are PLENTY of young singles who enjoy this area...and they don't all live inside the beltway either.
I'm not trying to really keep arguing with you but just saying that most of your points make absolutely no sense and seem to be artificially created problems. Just be happy RR and if that means a major lifestyle change then DO IT! Life is too short and there is too much to enjoy!
Last edited by NOVAmtneer82; 06-01-2010 at 08:31 PM..
It's a shame, too, that nobody on this sub-forum sees anything inherently wrong with that, either. I can't wait for Thursday. Friends and I are going to share great times at Jimmy's Old Town Tavern in Herndon followed by checking out a Michael Jackson act at the Herndon Festival. Old Town Herndon may be so small you'll miss it if you sneeze, but it packs so much more coziness and warmth than sterile and corporate Reston Town Center will ever hope to achieve.
So, pretty much anyplace is better than where you have decided to live for another year. Got it.
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. 
I cringe to think that on my salary I could be living in Pittsburgh's Squirrel Hill, Philly's Manayunk, Midtown Harrisburg, or Little Italy in Baltimore. Here? I get Reston. It just doesn't add up to me. If I'm going to struggle and sacrifice, then where is the "payoff?" 
My one friend is a financial advisor in Pittsburgh. On a similar salary she's living in the heart of the city. Another friend is a political analyst in Harrisburg. He's living in a historic rowhome near to thriving nightlife. I just benchmark myself to them, smell the curry in my hallway, look at the chain restaurants all around me, and hear booming car stereos and wonder "so when can I match their quality-of-life here in NoVA?" I simply can't answer that question.
) away from Tysons Corner and the Dulles Tech Corridor which are essentially the two major job centers in the entire DC region including the District itself. So while there may indeed be fewer socializing opportunities in that area, it's certainly where a plurality of jobs are. 
