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Man. White racism is just killing NWI. Some people will say it's politics, others will blame the lack of regional cooperation on the number of communities, but at the end of the day it's about race.
I'm only 31, so I can't wait to see what'll happen to Dyer, Schererville, St. John, & CP in 50 years. The Garyfication of all of Lake County is well underway, and the sad thing is that it doesn't even have to be that way.
I would respectfully disagree. Like I said, what happened to N. Lake County (as well as many other rust belt cities - Detroit being the extreme illustration) cannot be analyzed in a vacuum. You have to consider the historical and economic context.
Historical
When blacks started moving into Gary, there was a great deal of suspicion and intolerance because it was the 50s-60s and racial tensions were at an all-time high. This lead to a widespread exodus of whites.
Economic
Gary was in many ways a one trick pony, and that trick was steel. Gary was only once great because of the steel industry, and its precipitous decline was largely because of the steel industry.
Those conditions don't really exist today to the same extent.
Today, NWI's economy is far more diverse. There are many industries that exist. There will thus always be jobs, and many high-paying jobs. There are just too many people and too many economic considerations to lead to a conclusion that "Garyfication" will take over the entire region. There are always going to be nice areas because there is money to be made in NWI. Moreover, the expansion of Chicago is making many areas of NWI more and more desirable as bedroom communities.
Secondly, I would like to think that people are a little more tolerant of diversity today than 50 years ago. I would like to think people aren't going to pack up and move just because a black or Hispanic family moves in next door. However, I understand that that's more of an idealist way of thinking and not necessarily what's true.
That being said - if people bring crime and drugs to a community (regardless of race) or schools start failing, then that probably is a valid reason why someone would leave. In that respect it's a burden on communities to put a premium on schools and crime prevention to curb such effects. That goes back to the topic of the post - the perception that Portage is going downhill is because they have struggled of late with the quality of education that they provide as well as tackling crime prevention.
Sorry for the long-winded posts, but this is an area of much interest to me from a sociological perspective.
I'll bite. This is a tiring subject and one that's been debated ad nauseam on these boards. But, when provocative false statements such as this are said, I can't help but respond. Northwest Indiana is like many other areas where segregation is prevalent. Many of the middle or upper class residents are white, and much of the crime and gang-ridden areas are predominately minorities. Those are just the facts not influenced by my opinion one bit.
Many of the towns you listed above, and you can throw Munster and Valpo into that mix as well, are becoming more racially diverse. Are these towns going downhill? Most would say no and I would agree with that. Race doesn't matter when you value education, take care of your property, are not in a gang or the drug trade, and live a respectable life. I fully embrace anyone who has these same basic values as me, and I sure as hell don't care what they look like.
I ask you, what evidence or data do you have to support your claim that white racism is killing NWI?
This ought to be interesting.
Can NWI today be blamed on white racism? All depends on who you ask but I would say, plenty of blame to go around among all facets. Unfortunately, NWI didn't just pop up and end up the way it is. Sadly, racism is a huge part of that.
Let's get the main things out of the way. Gary is a dangerous city. It has always been a dangerous city. When it was majority white, it was bad, when the population was 50/50, it was bad and now that the population is majority black, it is bad. Throughout its history, Gary has never been a city for the weak. The city is corrupt and has been since its founding. Every mayor from R.O. Johnson to the current mayor (she's had some shady dealings when she was head of GUEA). Two mayoral convictions, R.O. Johnson and George Chacharis and would have four but Mandich was at least smart enough to report his bribes and kickbacks on his taxes and statute of limitations ran out on Katz from when he was Controller. Let's just be honest, there's nothing honest about that city nor has there ever been. Now the white population likes to pretend it started with Hatcher but by the time Hatcher was even a city councilman the Democratic Machine was already well oiled and finely tuned.
Now the city's downfall started with Hatcher. One, he was just a bad mayor. It was the series of events that transpired. For starters, Hatcher was elected under the ever vigilant watchful eye of the feds! For those who choose not to remember that part for shame. Yes, the democratic machine through their own candidate under the bus and staged to rig the election. With that election immediately came block busting, the ability for the black residents to live in Glen Park and Miller. The state didn't help by forcing all billboards down along the interstates within Gary city limits because of a black man as mayor. This also culminated with the state usurping its own laws and allowing Merrillville to annex up to 53rd, even though by that time Indiana had enacted a 5 mile buffer law between incorporated areas. Thus officially landlocking Gary so it could never expand after that useless annexation majority poor white Black Oak.
Hatcher's boorish attitude and GTH demeanor to the white population didn't help matters much. Areas like the East Side and Glen Park were tense, while the residents in Miller did actually try to come together as one community which did negate some of the tension there but being one of the first black families in Miller, it was more than noticeable. White Flight, combined with businesses moving out of the city in droves coupled with "mysterious" fires and a lot of insurance money collection made things worse. Early 80's, the steel industry's collapse was the icing on the cake.
Today, I think and at times you can tell, everyone in that county would love nothing more than for Gary to rise from the ashes. The suburbanites refuse to help and the citizens for the most part don't have the money to make that type of investment. The city is broke and all those who have watched the city try to pull itself up time and time again only to falter due to criminal politicians or lack of community involvement pretty much just looks the other way and says see, I told you so. The citizenry is well defeated. Those who can, won't. Those who can't make sure no one else can either and that part, you cannot blame on suburbanites. Crab effect all day every day.
PCG, I think your comments are being a little misunderstood. I think what you are trying to say (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you don't see the kind of racial segregation in many other areas of the country that you do in NWI. Is that correct?
Yes, that is correct. I have lived all of my life (except the last three years) in the Calumet Region. What I see In Arizona is nothing like what I have seen in the Region.
Can NWI today be blamed on white racism? All depends on who you ask but I would say, plenty of blame to go around among all facets. Unfortunately, NWI didn't just pop up and end up the way it is. Sadly, racism is a huge part of that.
Let's get the main things out of the way. Gary is a dangerous city. It has always been a dangerous city. When it was majority white, it was bad, when the population was 50/50, it was bad and now that the population is majority black, it is bad. Throughout its history, Gary has never been a city for the weak. The city is corrupt and has been since its founding. Every mayor from R.O. Johnson to the current mayor (she's had some shady dealings when she was head of GUEA). Two mayoral convictions, R.O. Johnson and George Chacharis and would have four but Mandich was at least smart enough to report his bribes and kickbacks on his taxes and statute of limitations ran out on Katz from when he was Controller. Let's just be honest, there's nothing honest about that city nor has there ever been. Now the white population likes to pretend it started with Hatcher but by the time Hatcher was even a city councilman the Democratic Machine was already well oiled and finely tuned.
Now the city's downfall started with Hatcher. One, he was just a bad mayor. It was the series of events that transpired. For starters, Hatcher was elected under the ever vigilant watchful eye of the feds! For those who choose not to remember that part for shame. Yes, the democratic machine through their own candidate under the bus and staged to rig the election. With that election immediately came block busting, the ability for the black residents to live in Glen Park and Miller. The state didn't help by forcing all billboards down along the interstates within Gary city limits because of a black man as mayor. This also culminated with the state usurping its own laws and allowing Merrillville to annex up to 53rd, even though by that time Indiana had enacted a 5 mile buffer law between incorporated areas. Thus officially landlocking Gary so it could never expand after that useless annexation majority poor white Black Oak.
Hatcher's boorish attitude and GTH demeanor to the white population didn't help matters much. Areas like the East Side and Glen Park were tense, while the residents in Miller did actually try to come together as one community which did negate some of the tension there but being one of the first black families in Miller, it was more than noticeable. White Flight, combined with businesses moving out of the city in droves coupled with "mysterious" fires and a lot of insurance money collection made things worse. Early 80's, the steel industry's collapse was the icing on the cake.
Today, I think and at times you can tell, everyone in that county would love nothing more than for Gary to rise from the ashes. The suburbanites refuse to help and the citizens for the most part don't have the money to make that type of investment. The city is broke and all those who have watched the city try to pull itself up time and time again only to falter due to criminal politicians or lack of community involvement pretty much just looks the other way and says see, I told you so. The citizenry is well defeated. Those who can, won't. Those who can't make sure no one else can either and that part, you cannot blame on suburbanites. Crab effect all day every day.
Great post, msam.
I'd even go so far as to say that white suburbanites created the Gary that we know today by abandoning the city (and some probably do want Gary to remain the way it is).
Yes, that is correct. I have lived all of my life (except the last three years) in the Calumet Region. What I see In Arizona is nothing like what I have seen in the Region.
SW is nothing like the midwest. Point being, even with Gary the way it is today there is still a middle class in the city. I was just hanging out with a bunch of them this past Memorial Day. Gary today is not the Gary of the 90's and early 2k's. It's is actually safer now than it was during that time period. Being a city with a 38% poverty rate (not the nations highest), there's going to be a plethora of have nots and undesirables living there as well as outside undesirables making their way into the city to do well undesirable things. It's an urban area and they all have the same basic characteristics.
Memorial Day, I was in both Miller and on the West side. Now this is going to shock a lot of you. By the time we got into the city, there were a lot of white people walking in Miller, broad daylight just doing their own thing and low and behold, no one cared!. Right as we came upon Lake Street, the train was just dropping a bunch of them off in bathing suits/towels in hand and they were walking to the beach. Since I hadn't rolled through the beach in a minute, we decided to go. Had the new puppy with us so rolled up to Marquette park beach. $3 to park for city residents (huh), had the change but dogs not allowed, had to go to Lake Street Beach. Two minute roll through had fond memories of going to Ono's for penny candy, white, black and hispanic folk all around there. Drove up, $7 for city residents to park, wtf, I remember when it was free! Needless to say, since it was MD, dude let us pass through, wrong county number on the license plate, guess he felt sorry for us. Figured out why everyone was walking though. White, black and hispanic all intermingled, kids playing everyone just doing their own thing; boats out, waverunners. We ended up walking with a couple who also had a brand new puppy with them as well. White couple just talkin and walkin. Almost made to the USS Break wall, would have been the first time ever, but due on the West side.
Misses 2nd time ever in Gary, so we roll through MJ house in Midtown. The one place you would expect there to be some drama is two blocks from Dulaney. Quiet, people taking pictures. Hit the West side, bbq and frozen drinks time! Quiet neighborhood, lawns kept, pretty quiet. People just minding their own business. Low and behold, a white guy walking going door to door! Dude just looked fearless in his polo and shorts, strangers on the doorstep not all that welcomed there. Door to door salesman trying to sale alarm systems. Nice guy, smiled, walked without apprehension (key to a city like Gary) and low and behold, he wasn't touched! GASP! Neighbor offered him a plate (NO LIE). Even had my first experience at Country Market. Fresh fruits and veggies and nice looking meat which is a first in a very long time for Gary. Save More downtown is crap. Even noticed they had that new Payless in Cal Township on Ridge Rd. Needless to say, fresh product in Gary was unheard of as little as 10 years ago so at least there's been some progress.
When people talk about Gary, it kind of reminds me of Hamilton County people and Indianapolis. Those who swear the moment you travel south of 96th street, your're going to get jacked, robbed, murdered! Same thing, north of 53rd and that's all she wrote! There are some bad neighborhoods in Gary and just about everything East of Broadway that's not in Miller but not everyone is poor, or ghetto or some welfare rat. Didn't get to make my Morningside run this trip but did stop over in Sunnyside (neighborhood just West of Methodist NL). Outside of a few vacants, the area is still just gorgeous and actually has more character than Morningside. Houses just beautiful! If it weren't too close to Ambridge, might have looked to live there at one point in time. Great time had in LC north of 53rd , heading out Misses asks about getting gas, our we stopping here. Uh, streetsmarts never dormant, hell no!
Point being, Gary is like every urban area. It has its good parts and its bad parts and so so parts. You'd be surprised how many folk you see in those Chicago skyscrapers in business suits still live in Gary. I can name several off the top of my head right now, but then again, my entire hood from our age group beez college educated.
I'd even go so far as to say that white suburbanites created the Gary that we know today by abandoning the city (and some probably do want Gary to remain the way it is).
Still waiting for the support for your outlandish claim you posted earlier...
Still waiting for the support for your outlandish claim you posted earlier...
It's called xenophobia. Google it.
In NWI, those for sale signs can't pop up fast enough when the black families start moving in. Gary, Hammond, EC, Merrillville, and now Portage.
Why is Merrillville now seeing the same white flight Gary has dealt with for years? It's still a solid middle class area...so there's only one reason why anyone would leave, and it's a very obvious reason.
How come blacks and whites can coexist in subdivisions in Indianapolis? There are a WHOLE LOT of black people in Indianapolis who moved there from Gary.
The racism that is ingrained into the social fabric of NWI and Chicago is like a cancer on society and is just as repugnant as the rotting communities left behind in its wake.
In NWI, those for sale signs can't pop up fast enough when the black families start moving in. Gary, Hammond, EC, Merrillville, and now Portage.
Why is Merrillville now seeing the same white flight Gary has dealt with for years? It's still a solid middle class area...so there's only one reason why anyone would leave, and it's a very obvious reason.
How come blacks and whites can coexist in subdivisions in Indianapolis? There are a WHOLE LOT of black people in Indianapolis who moved there from Gary.
The racism that is ingrained into the social fabric of NWI and Chicago is like a cancer on society and is just as repugnant as the rotting communities left behind in its wake.
Merrillville is not just seeing White Flight these days. It is seeing flight from all types of people. Many residents in Merrillville are being replaced by individuals from lower economic classes (who unfortunately also happen to mostly be Blacks trying to escape Gary). But guess who is LEAVING Merrillville? Whites AND Blacks AND Hispanics who have more money, education, and can afford to move to better school districts such as Crown Point and Valparaiso.
Yes, racism was primarily the start of White Flight in the 60s. However, these days, there are just some places that ARE NOT SEEN AS LIVABLE.
Gary is still VERY segregated btw. Once you go west of Cleveland Street, you are in an area of unicorporated Gary that is more predominantly White than some of the suburbs that people fled to. And it's not like price is keeping minorities out of Cal Township!! It's old attitudes!
But places like Crown Point (and I am also talking about the nicer subdivisions like Doubletree, Ellendale Farms, White Hawk, etc.) are seeing an increase in the minority population because these individuals want to live around others with the same education level and educational aspirations as they do (in the majority). Sorry, but Merrillville is becoming a little more blighted as each day passes. And the school district is not strict on checking attendance so why would someone pay more to send their kids to schools in Merrillville when someone from Gary (who's family is paying much less taxes and in rent/mortgage if at all) can just sneak in? Some of this blight is due to some of the apartment communities in that town that have very transient residents who are not rooted into the community and could care less about it (this is not all residents though). Now let me just state this: there are still many middle class residents of Gary and Merrillville who see no reason to leave, and that is fine. If you are happy where you are, then stay. But if you are not and staying in a location won't make you happy, why stay and be a downer for everyone else?
Are there still Whites that are moving further away ONLY because of race? Sure, and it is SAD. But you better believe that there are many Blacks who are choosing ONLY to live in Merrillville ONLY because of race and because some family said "there are other Blacks here too". And guess what. When that happens, you can kiss "diversity" good bye. When people know that only people of a certain race are moving into an area, then we all know that area will not stay diverse. Merrillville will probably be 90%+ Black in 10 years. Is this bad in and of itself? NO. But the "pinnacle" of diversity for that area is right now. The diversity is going away.
And let's look at the south Suburbs in Illinois. When whites left places like Harvey and Calumet City in the 60s, it was racist White Flight. When many Blacks started moving out of those places in the early 2000s to places like Matteson, Homewood, Country Club Hills, etc., it was called "moving up". Why wasn't it called "Classist Flight" ?
Many Blacks who moved to Indianapolis from Gary are middle class and beyond and share many of the goals, culture, and jobs that their white counterparts do as well. But don't act like White Flight is not happening and has not happened there. Hamilton County and Hendricks County are prime examples. But guess what? Many many more minorities are moving into those suburban counties (especially Hendricks) and into the township areas as well (the more affluent ones too). And many of these minorities have always been middle class. Economically speaking, it is easier for the average person from the suburban areas of Marion County to move into the suburban collar counties than for someone to move from North Lake County to South Lake County.
The southern half of Marion County is less affluent, less developed and MORE White than the northern half which is way more diverse and more affluent.
So there still are some negative racial attitudes there that are keeping minorities out of those areas as well.
The main difference is that Indy never had a rise and downfall such as Gary and pretty much never had to deal with all of the exact same issues as up here.
Last edited by Northwest Indiana; 06-08-2012 at 03:56 AM..
Many Blacks who moved to Indianapolis from Gary are middle class and beyond and share many of the goals, culture, and jobs that their white counterparts do as well. But don't act like White Flight is not happening and has not happened there. Hamilton County and Hendricks County are prime examples. But guess what? Many many more minorities are moving into those suburban counties (especially Hendricks) and into the township areas as well (the more affluent ones too). And many of these minorities have always been middle class. Economically speaking, it is easier for the average person from the suburban areas of Marion County to move into the suburban collar counties than for someone to move from North Lake County to South Lake County.
Goals yes, jobs maybe, culture NO! The average person from Gary moving to the capital city start off in the outlying townships and not center. Black people moving from Center are leaving for one reason; IPS and are long time Indianapolis residents. IPS is actually worse than GPSC so that should tell you something. Unless you can get your kid into one of the magnets which are very good or you do private, a parent isn't staying in center or the parts of Washington that go to Northwest or Broad Ripple if they can afford to live elsewhere which is very easy to do. That's not a true apples to apples comparison. In Indianapolis, it's hard pressed to find a neighborhood and street for that matter that doesn't have at least one black, white and hispanic living on it which you cannot say in Lake County. The two areas are coming from two different places in that regard.
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Gary is still VERY segregated btw. Once you go west of Cleveland Street, you are in an area of unicorporated Gary that is more predominantly White than some of the suburbs that people fled to. And it's not like price is keeping minorities out of Cal Township!! It's old attitudes!
If you are referring to Black Oak, it's incorporated, although they still attend Lake Ridge schools and not Gary. The difference with BO and other areas is, Black Oak has always been poor and deemed undesirable even to the black residents. It's never had any redeeming qualities which is how the city was able to convince them to annex in thinking they would get better services. It's never been Griffith, Merrillville, Highland, etc. It's never been in that league. Unincorporated Cal is just that unincorporated. Gary, like the rest of NWI has always been segregated with blacks being forced into Midtown and whites living everywhere else. By allowing Glen Park and Miller to be integrated, Hatcher's goal was true integration, his mouth just screwed it up. Midtown is still all black. Black Oak is majority white. Glen Park is the most integrated as most whites in Gary actually live in Glen Park and not Miller. Miller is the most homogeneous and work together pretty decently due the area starting out trying to co-exist whereas Glen Park was a free for all. Lake County is just one of those areas where you just know who lives where. You say black, you are going to think Gary and North Hammond. You say Hispanic, you're going to think East Chicago. You say white, it's everywhere but Gary and East Chicago.
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The southern half of Marion County is less affluent, less developed and MORE White than the northern half which is way more diverse and more affluent.
So there still are some negative racial attitudes there that are keeping minorities out of those areas as well.
Well, Indianapolis, you have to be a little more specific. For starters, every side has the same housing stock from itty bitties to Executive Homes. Each side of Indianapolis (N,S,E,W,DT) are all self contained. If you live south, you don't have to travel north for anything and vice versa just as a west sider doesn't have to go to the east side or downtown residents having to leave downtown. One of the most integrated townships is Perry which is south. The most integrated is probably still Center Township (old city limits). The only difference, majority population is black and not white and normally white people do not see that as being "integrated" esp. if they are not the dominant population. They see it as black, but is in fact integrated with whites, blacks, asians, hispanic and other ethnicity.
In NWI, those for sale signs can't pop up fast enough when the black families start moving in. Gary, Hammond, EC, Merrillville, and now Portage.
Why is Merrillville now seeing the same white flight Gary has dealt with for years? It's still a solid middle class area...so there's only one reason why anyone would leave, and it's a very obvious reason.
How come blacks and whites can coexist in subdivisions in Indianapolis? There are a WHOLE LOT of black people in Indianapolis who moved there from Gary.
The racism that is ingrained into the social fabric of NWI and Chicago is like a cancer on society and is just as repugnant as the rotting communities left behind in its wake.
So the meaning of xenophobia is your evidence, data, and support for making a claim that white racism is killing NWI? Your lack of any substance within your arguments leads readers to view them as uneducated opinions that hold no weight. Race relations and the effect on local communities is an interesting topic, so I would have been interested to see what kind of information you could have brought to the table to discuss. But, you had nothing, thereby admitting your post was derived from an internal self-hatred for those who are not of the same race as you. That's unfortunate.
Only one reason anyone would leave Merrillville? I can think of two right now and neither have to do with race: poor schools and rising violent crime. How can anyone, of any race, be blamed for wanting to leave a town with poor public schools and a town that has admitted it doesn't have enough police to keep up with the crime in its town?
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, heading out Misses asks about getting gas, our we stopping here. Uh, streetsmarts never dormant, hell no!
