U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Indiana > Northwest Indiana
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-09-2011, 04:06 AM
 
98 posts, read 113,463 times
Reputation: 103
Nice trolling. NW Indiana was a victim of the area being over-dependent upon manufacturing jobs that have left the area. While there still some jobs in the area, most of the higher paid workers commute to area rather than live in it, meaning that the remaining residents are the people who either cannot commute or can't gain employment in the few good companies left in the area.

While Gary is a unique case, in that it has been run by a series of incompetent and corrupt politicians, there are many communities in NWI (some o that have been mentioned here and some others, such as Dyer, Schererville, Merrillville,Whiting and Portage for example) that holding their own, or even succeeding, despite the tough times in the area.

Tarring an entire area with the same brush is both unfair and inaccurate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-09-2011, 09:52 AM
 
2,747 posts, read 2,076,720 times
Reputation: 1236
Unfair maybe, but at the end of the day an area is only as strong as its core city. No one cares about suburbs until they've chosen that core city first for whatever reason be it scenery or job opportunity. No one starts out their journey saying I want to live in Carmel, Indiana as most people outside of this state and some midwestern enclaves have no clue where it is. It's always, Indianapolis and then viable areas within the city/suburbs. To hit closer to home, no one says I want to live in Naperville. It's Chicago first then underlying area second.

I do find it funny though how some are taking a little offense as far as online forums go about being lumped in with Gary and EC. The same ones who paints all of Gary as being bad, not livable blah blah when in reality it's a city with good areas and bad areas just like every other urban area. There are neighborhoods in Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans etc that are far worse than the worst neighborhood in Gary which just happens to be in Black Oak. Since they have shiny downtowns, professional sports etc, they receive a pass whereas a city like Gary does not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 12:05 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,017 posts, read 4,160,125 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
Unfair maybe, but at the end of the day an area is only as strong as its core city. No one cares about suburbs until they've chosen that core city first for whatever reason be it scenery or job opportunity. No one starts out their journey saying I want to live in Carmel, Indiana as most people outside of this state and some midwestern enclaves have no clue where it is. It's always, Indianapolis and then viable areas within the city/suburbs. To hit closer to home, no one says I want to live in Naperville. It's Chicago first then underlying area second.

I do find it funny though how some are taking a little offense as far as online forums go about being lumped in with Gary and EC. The same ones who paints all of Gary as being bad, not livable blah blah when in reality it's a city with good areas and bad areas just like every other urban area. There are neighborhoods in Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans etc that are far worse than the worst neighborhood in Gary which just happens to be in Black Oak. Since they have shiny downtowns, professional sports etc, they receive a pass whereas a city like Gary does not.
And the core city for Lake County, Indiana is Chicago. Gary at one point in time may have been the core city but today Lake County is made more up of commuters to Chicago. So this would make Chicago the urban core.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 12:48 AM
 
2,068 posts, read 1,762,230 times
Reputation: 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
And the core city for Lake County, Indiana is Chicago. Gary at one point in time may have been the core city but today Lake County is made more up of commuters to Chicago. So this would make Chicago the urban core.
Agreed. Cities like Munster, St. John, and Dyer have for many intents and purposes become bedroom communities of Chicago.

Furthermore, many forget that other cities in NWI such as Crown Point and Valparaiso existed long before Gary. Such cities, even in the golden age of the steel industry, never completely relied on Gary/Hammond/E. Chicago for economic subsistence. While many residents of these older cities have and do work in Gary/Hammond/E. Chicago, these cities have attracted variety of other industries that fuel their respective economies. And as urza216 stated, Chicago's presence in the past few decades has grown substantially in NWI.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 04:37 AM
 
2,747 posts, read 2,076,720 times
Reputation: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
And the core city for Lake County, Indiana is Chicago. Gary at one point in time may have been the core city but today Lake County is made more up of commuters to Chicago. So this would make Chicago the urban core.
Commuting patterns still show that to not be true. Gary and Chicago still maintain separate metropolitan divisions just as Dallas-Forth Worth. Granted, there are more people that commute from Indiana into Illinois than Illinois into Indiana but majority of people in Indiana work in Indiana just like the majority of people that live in Illinois work in Illinois.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 09:35 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,017 posts, read 4,160,125 times
Reputation: 1771
Faulty anology. NWI is a southeastern region of Chicagoland. Very comparable to the Metro-East in the Saint Louis area. Those Illinois towns are suburbs of Saint Louis, Misouri not suburbs of East Saint Louis, Illinois.

Most people living in a sotheastern area do work elsewhere in the south or southeast. We aren't talkng about entire states here though. Indianapois has nothing do with this dicussion and neither does the northwest suburbs of Chicago really.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,017 posts, read 4,160,125 times
Reputation: 1771
In any and ever way, Naperville in the far west suburbs feels more like "another state" than driving 20 minutes east over to Northwest Indiana. I don't consider it leaving home..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 11:02 AM
 
1,375 posts, read 2,027,833 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
And the core city for Lake County, Indiana is Chicago. Gary at one point in time may have been the core city but today Lake County is made more up of commuters to Chicago. So this would make Chicago the urban core.
Exactly! Gary/EC/Hammond USED to be the core cities for the area where "going downtown" meant going to the downtowns of those cities where all the amenities were. Now, "going downtown" means going to downtown Chicago. Or even downtown Crown Point or Highland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 11:19 AM
 
1,375 posts, read 2,027,833 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
Unfair maybe, but at the end of the day an area is only as strong as its core city. No one cares about suburbs until they've chosen that core city first for whatever reason be it scenery or job opportunity. No one starts out their journey saying I want to live in Carmel, Indiana as most people outside of this state and some midwestern enclaves have no clue where it is. It's always, Indianapolis and then viable areas within the city/suburbs. To hit closer to home, no one says I want to live in Naperville. It's Chicago first then underlying area second.

I do find it funny though how some are taking a little offense as far as online forums go about being lumped in with Gary and EC. The same ones who paints all of Gary as being bad, not livable blah blah when in reality it's a city with good areas and bad areas just like every other urban area. There are neighborhoods in Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans etc that are far worse than the worst neighborhood in Gary which just happens to be in Black Oak. Since they have shiny downtowns, professional sports etc, they receive a pass whereas a city like Gary does not.
Well I would beg to differ that Black Oak is the worst area of Gary. Yes poverty levels mirror the rest of Gary, but crime levels are much lower than in other parts of Gary, it is more secluded, AND it is NOT served by Gary Schools (which is a good thing). Rather, it is served by the Lake Ridge School Corporation (which is not good, but MUCH better and SAFER than Gary schools).

Yes, many of us do get a little offended when we get lumped in with Gary/EC/Hammond mostly because the areas are so different and unique. Just like people in many of the south suburbs may not like getting lumped together with the south side (when people refer to the whole area as ghetto for example).

I, for one, find it offensive for another reason. People from Gary made sooo much noise about "the Whites and Business owners and Black sellouts" moving out of Gary and into Merrillville and CP (much of this noise coming from former Mayor Hatcher)...those people were called "racists and Uncle Toms"...now these SAME people who made so much noise (or their offspring) are moving into the same areas (Merrillville and CP) that they once damned. Why? Because there is little keeping them in Gary.

I think Gary residents are mad that much of nwi DOES NOT depend on them for much of anything. If the steel mills were to close, it probably wouldn't affect Munster or Saint John or Crown Point as much as people think it would. Most of the residents in these towns don't work in Gary.

Can one live there whole life in Gary and not experience any personal harm? Yes. Am I willing to take that risk seeing as in I only have one life? No. Gary's "good areas and bad areas" are not objectively good and bad as far as NWI goes. It is not just about safety. It is also about amenities, schools, taxes, etc.

Furthermore, I have said this once and I'll say it again. If Gary does make any type of rebound, it would mirror that of what is happening in DC proper: the lower class being replaced by the upper-middle class. The upper-middle class can afford to be "pioneers" and if it doesn't turn out well, they can afford a potential bad investment and move elsewhere. The MIDDLE CLASS are not taking these risks and would rather be called names and live far out where it is safe and affordable. The infusion of residents back into Gary will likely tick many Gary residents off because people will be like "oh, so now ppl want to come back to MY city and push ME out!"...I admit, I would probably be upset too. But like I said, just look at what is going on in DC. It is losing it's name as the "Chocolate City" and people are upset about getting pushed out into Prince Georges County.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2011, 02:51 PM
 
2,747 posts, read 2,076,720 times
Reputation: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
Well I would beg to differ that Black Oak is the worst area of Gary. Yes poverty levels mirror the rest of Gary, but crime levels are much lower than in other parts of Gary, it is more secluded, AND it is NOT served by Gary Schools (which is a good thing). Rather, it is served by the Lake Ridge School Corporation (which is not good, but MUCH better and SAFER than Gary schools).

Yes, many of us do get a little offended when we get lumped in with Gary/EC/Hammond mostly because the areas are so different and unique. Just like people in many of the south suburbs may not like getting lumped together with the south side (when people refer to the whole area as ghetto for example).

I, for one, find it offensive for another reason. People from Gary made sooo much noise about "the Whites and Business owners and Black sellouts" moving out of Gary and into Merrillville and CP (much of this noise coming from former Mayor Hatcher)...those people were called "racists and Uncle Toms"...now these SAME people who made so much noise (or their offspring) are moving into the same areas (Merrillville and CP) that they once damned. Why? Because there is little keeping them in Gary.

I think Gary residents are mad that much of nwi DOES NOT depend on them for much of anything. If the steel mills were to close, it probably wouldn't affect Munster or Saint John or Crown Point as much as people think it would. Most of the residents in these towns don't work in Gary.

Can one live there whole life in Gary and not experience any personal harm? Yes. Am I willing to take that risk seeing as in I only have one life? No. Gary's "good areas and bad areas" are not objectively good and bad as far as NWI goes. It is not just about safety. It is also about amenities, schools, taxes, etc.

Furthermore, I have said this once and I'll say it again. If Gary does make any type of rebound, it would mirror that of what is happening in DC proper: the lower class being replaced by the upper-middle class. The upper-middle class can afford to be "pioneers" and if it doesn't turn out well, they can afford a potential bad investment and move elsewhere. The MIDDLE CLASS are not taking these risks and would rather be called names and live far out where it is safe and affordable. The infusion of residents back into Gary will likely tick many Gary residents off because people will be like "oh, so now ppl want to come back to MY city and push ME out!"...I admit, I would probably be upset too. But like I said, just look at what is going on in DC. It is losing it's name as the "Chocolate City" and people are upset about getting pushed out into Prince Georges County.
The two poorest areas of Gary are black oak which it has been since it was annexed in '76 and the area to the immediate South. As far as crime, something tells me you've never much ventured to far north that's not on a main thoroughfare. A lot of unreported in Black Oak (A LOT). One of the reasons, it's mostly white so not too many people care in a 90% black city and well GPD is one of the most non-responsive units you will ever come across. Unless your out in Miller and certain areas on the west side and Glen Park, good luck.

If USS were to close, LC is screwed. It's the largest employer in all of Lake County with both the main mill in Gary and the Tin Mill in East Chicago. Not only is it the largest employer, it pays the most in taxes. It owns the most property by a longshot and maybe with an outside chance of BP definitely has the most equipment. USS closes, there will not be a business or person that will not take a big hit on the chin as the county will have to make up for that somehow or start chopping stuff off the books. Add on top of that all of the companies that are alive because of USS that would either suffer a major hit or be forced out of business all together because their largest customer closed shop.

Gary residents aren't mad because NWI doesn't depend on it like it used to, that's just pure conceitedness. Residents are mad due to the hate and name slinging that's hurled their way on a daily basis over a 40 year period. I've said a many of times about the dynamics of LC. The ending dynamic is everyone hates Gary and for a myriad of reasons some valid, some aren't but at the end of the day, that's how it is and LC residents don't hide it so in turn those same Gary residents pushes the same venom back they receive.

There's a lot of people who live their entire lives in Gary and never fell victim to a crime, it's not actually that uncommon believe it or not. Schools, definitely, GCSC is lost but still better than IPS . As far as "amenities," I'll be blunt, outside of the Lake and things related to it like the boats and dunes, you really don't have anything to write home to mom about, LC is just kind of there and a place you pass through getting from point A to point B.

As far as residents being upset if other people started moving back in; yes and no. Of course the biggest losers of that are the criminals so they would more than hate that. The average taxpayer, who goes to work and pays taxes, no issues I would venture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Indiana > Northwest Indiana
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top