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Old 11-24-2015, 07:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
I don't really consider anything less than 100k upper middle class for household income but maybe it is relative to cost of living. I am sure there are parts of towns in NWI that fit this description, just not the entire towns.

Carmel does meet this metric while many other towns do not.
If you look at certain census tracts of even Carmel, you will find some areas where it is slightly below $100,000. However, for a city of its size in Indiana, it is overall upper middle class. In SOME places, there will always be some areas of town below the median and mean income for households and families in the town and some areas above. But when you look at the mean and median incomes for families in towns, several entire towns in which either the median family/household income or mean family/household income (or both) are over $100,000 per year according to the 2009-2013 American Community Survey 5-Year Estimates, namely:

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

St. John | 94,526/104,542 | 106,902/115,679 | 5,236/4,285
Munster | 72,583/92,072 | 96,848/114,057 | 8,619/6,188
Dyer | 76,457/86,643 | 102,104/116,337 | 5,705/4,414
Winfield | 76,123/81,667 | 90,229/105,015 | 1,565/1,180

And here is the information for other Lake County municipalities:

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

Highland | 61,353/71,718 | 70,886/81,999 | 9,503/6,202
Griffith | 53,552/64,949 | 64,871/75,737 | 6,288/4,318
Schererville | 66,449/86,364 | 82,777/99,332 | 11,582/7,725
Crown Point | 63,121/75,112 | 78,090/90,507 | 10,653/7,250
Cedar Lake | 58,401/63,672 | 66,505/77,151 | 4,230/2,867
Lowell | 61,660/70,299 | 69,914/76,719 | 3,003/2,357
Lake Station | 38,537/45,017 | 44,380/51,291 | 4,568/3,212
Hobart | 55,617/68,961 | 61,955/70,935 | 11,428/7,588
Merrillville | 51,389/62,975 | 58,756/69,026 | 13,323/8,434
Gary | 26,885/31,709 | 38,600/42,338 | 30,857/18,571
East Chicago | 27,583/31,806 | 37,716/41,223 | 9,825/6,357
Hammond | 38,365/45,330 | 47,709/53,932 | 28,465/18,390
Whiting | 49, 563/71,510 | 61,246/71,048 | 1,808/1,229

And for Porter County over $100,000:

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

Ogden Dunes | 101,875/117,083 | 131,101/155,010 | 539/389
Dune Acres | 141, 250/160,625 | 234,654/218,367 | 125/101

And for other Porter County municipalities

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

Portage | 53,969/64,987 | 61,667/68,316 | 13,848/9,580
Chesterton | 68,673/76,601 | 85,575/94,359 | 4,950/3,659
Valparaiso | 48,703/64,077 | 60,979/77,317 | 12,040/6,995
Hebron | 54,050/62,194 | 57,281/65,247 | 1,428/932
Kouts | 62,431/64,292 | 69,603/74,934 | 691/557

And then some Census Designated Places

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

Lakes of the Four Seasons | 87,929/93,778 | 94,008/101,333 | 2,475/2,013
Shore wood Forest | 106,926/116,587 | 135,952/147,380 | 977/821

Now...looking at all this information, if one were to go SOLELY based upon numbers to try to find a place that feels the most upper-middle class, they might be disappointed in some aspects. For example, Valpo has a rather low median household income that is drastically different from the median family income...why? Because of the University. This should be taken into consideration as well. The only other area with numbers close to Valpo was Whiting but you won't find anyone who would categorize those two areas in the same tier when other factors are considered (such as schools, housing stock, etc). And then also consider the population amount that was factored when these numbers came up. You can also clearly see examples where smaller populated areas (Shorewood Forest, Ogden Dunes, Dune Acres) have extremely high incomes. Those areas are in fact upper-middle class enclaves and subdivisions. However, you also should consider that Ogden Dunes is also zoned to Portage schools which makes it less desirable in the area. Also consider that there are census tracts in Lake County where the population is roughly equal to the size of these small areas and the income levels are roughly equal as well (such as the census tracts in Munster in the White Oak/Park West area or Dyer and Schererville in Briar Ridge). Numbers may tell somewhat of a good story in some cases, but not the entire story. If someone were to say "I want to move to Kouts because the income is higher than Valpo, therefore, it must be nicer and better schools", you will get looked at as CRAZY by most folks.

Another factor to consider is wealth and net worth. In Lake County, the place with the highest of averages and means is St. John. However, most of the money in St. John is newer money. In Munster, most of the money is older money. While some of the incomes in Munster are lower, you also need to factor in the number of retirees and individuals living off of investments as well. Does this mean that Munster would be drastically higher income than St. John? No. But again, when you take into consideration that there are more individuals and families in Munster with no mortgages than in St. John, then the income differences suddenly becomes smaller. And for the folks deciding between Munster, St. John, Dyer, Schererville, Crown Point, Chesterton, and Valpo--all of which have different averages--I would say it is largely a non-issue for them. Most would be concerned with where they can get the most house for their money, which area serves as the best or "least worst" commute for the jobs, and which school system would serve their family the best.

Now, when comparing to some Illinois areas, consider that you do not need as high of an income to live the same lifestyle in Indiana. Here are some suburbs that are seen as comparable alternatives or appropriate tradeoffs to some areas here in terms of demographics, schools, amenities, etc.

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

Tinley Park | 79,383/91,027 | 89,305/100,369 | 20,725/15,026
Orland Park | 79,984/98,039 | 99,414/116,449 | 21,421/15,354
Orland Hills | 70,769/85,102 | 79,004/87,030 | 2,388/1,890
Homer Glen | 96,154/103,750 | 106,568/114,642 | 8,135/6,851
Frankfort | 113,264/124,180 | 137,190/143,046 | 5,671/4,842
Mokena | 99,330/108,360 | 113,172/121,719 | 6,155/5,012

I'll also include two higher income areas east of 57

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

Flossmoor | 100,941/118,599 | 134,335/152,114 | 3,455/2,515
Olympia Fields | 85,917/92,928 | 112,115/123,786 | 2,104/1,482

As well as two more areas closer to Indiana

PLACE | MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | MEAN HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY | POPULATION HOUSEHOLD/FAMILY

South Holland | 64,516/72,096 | 75,562/81,606 | 7,365/5,479
Lansing | 50,928/62,241 | 61,030/70,407 | 11,190/6,953

Ok. Now let's take into consideration first and foremost that the cost of living in Illinois is substantially higher than in Indiana. If you look at a place like Homer Glen, you will see that the most comparable place looking at numbers alone would be St. John; however, when you look at the cost of housing, groceries, gas, and most important, taxes such as property taxes, you definitely come out ahead in Indiana. This is why you will see people comparing places like Frankfort to St. John overall because while Frankfort on paper appears much wealthier than St. John (and yes, there are homes there that blow anything in St. John away), you have to consider that costs of almost everything in St. John is a fraction of what it is in Frankfort and there are not too many tradeoffs for most families considering the move.

You can also see that the numbers for South Holland are higher than Cedar Lake. But again, not only are there quite a few families from South Holland whom have moved to Cedar Lake, I would also say that while changing racial demographics may have had to do with many folks decision to move, if you look at school quality as well, there is really no comparison. Also consider that South Holland has high taxes as well. It may not be the most desirable area, but when buying a home there, the taxes do not make it the most affordable area compared to some NWI areas.

So when people in NWI speak of certain areas being upper middle class or middle class, the differences in cost of living should be taken into account as well. And as always, most of the time, perception is more "accurate" than the numbers, if you know what I mean.
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