U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Indiana > Northwest Indiana
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Northwest Indiana
811 posts, read 2,682,577 times
Reputation: 1051

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
Other jobs lost due to USX closing is different than say General Motors closing. While USX still probably produces the most steel in the US, It just isn't a viable option and unfortunately USX pride will not allow them to even remotely want another type of segment into the city. I remember my dad taking me into the Gary Works and just how deplorable and nasty it was. Granted most people don't see that side, but even the office building was in complete shambles and a good breeze away from falling down. That's land that can be better utilized. I would say from the 3rd St and Broadway entrance to the actual lake is about what mile maybe a little more, carry that across almost 5 miles of land, all owned by USX and the majority not being used. With USX gone and profits not going back to Pittsburgh, the potential for Gary to really grow is beyond belief.

The lake would be cleaner, as they actually use part of Lake Michigan as their landfill, the towering smoke stacks disappear. There's still plenty of smokestacks in the region to give Chicago its orange glow at sunset. You give the city the chance to expand without taking in more land as the city is landlocked and there would be companies and investors dying to get in on a new part of the lakefront.
Sorry to have to repeat myself, but no redevelopment schemes will involve the mill anytime soon. There is NO reason for it, its one of the few functioning things in the city. The mill isn't going anywhere nor should it be pushed out. It will be part of the city of Gary for decades to come. You may believe it is a waste of space, but it is far from that. It is a state of the art steel making factory. It is very profitable and makes high end steel products that cannot be produced anywhere else. The city of Gary is proud to have this factory and should be.

It provides thousands of middle class people with good paying jobs, not all are at the mill but with the many contractors of the mill all around the whole Chicagoland area. There would be no difference between the mill closing and a GM plant closing, it would be bad for the economy. Just look at what happened when they downsized. The ramifications for Gary (and NW Indiana and Chicagoland as well) would be huge. The mill pays over half of the property taxes, how would they replace that?

People don't understand why it is where it is. It isn't a mini-mill which uses scrap material to produce steel. Gary Works in a fully integrated steel mill, it produces new steel, one of the few left that can. Some high end products are made here and must be made with new steel, not recycled steel. The lake is necessary for delivery of raw material in such huge amounts that would bring roads and trains to a standstill. There is very little pollution from the mill in the lake today, the overrunning sewage from Illinois is a far bigger problem then industrial pollution in Indiana.

Besides there is plenty of abandoned land in Gary already to redevelop. However there is little to no demand for it. So why would there need to be more? Lakefronts aren't only the playland of wealthy condo owners, they are working places.

Gary was born because of steel. The future of Gary includes it. Yeah, it doesn't employ 40,000 anymore, but that progress. There are far more guys pushing buttons in there now then poking hot steel with sticks. There is nothing wrong with an industrial city, where do you think the steel comes from that makes your cars and fancy kitchen appliances?

There is plenty of things Gary can do to improve itself without ridding itself of one of its remaining assets.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2011, 08:45 PM
 
2,887 posts, read 5,995,218 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by richb View Post
Sorry to have to repeat myself, but no redevelopment schemes will involve the mill anytime soon. There is NO reason for it, its one of the few functioning things in the city. The mill isn't going anywhere nor should it be pushed out. It will be part of the city of Gary for decades to come. You may believe it is a waste of space, but it is far from that. It is a state of the art steel making factory. It is very profitable and makes high end steel products that cannot be produced anywhere else. The city of Gary is proud to have this factory and should be.

It provides thousands of middle class people with good paying jobs, not all are at the mill but with the many contractors of the mill all around the whole Chicagoland area. There would be no difference between the mill closing and a GM plant closing, it would be bad for the economy. Just look at what happened when they downsized. The ramifications for Gary (and NW Indiana and Chicagoland as well) would be huge. The mill pays over half of the property taxes, how would they replace that?

People don't understand why it is where it is. It isn't a mini-mill which uses scrap material to produce steel. Gary Works in a fully integrated steel mill, it produces new steel, one of the few left that can. Some high end products are made here and must be made with new steel, not recycled steel. The lake is necessary for delivery of raw material in such huge amounts that would bring roads and trains to a standstill. There is very little pollution from the mill in the lake today, the overrunning sewage from Illinois is a far bigger problem then industrial pollution in Indiana.

Besides there is plenty of abandoned land in Gary already to redevelop. However there is little to no demand for it. So why would there need to be more? Lakefronts aren't only the playland of wealthy condo owners, they are working places.

Gary was born because of steel. The future of Gary includes it. Yeah, it doesn't employ 40,000 anymore, but that progress. There are far more guys pushing buttons in there now then poking hot steel with sticks. There is nothing wrong with an industrial city, where do you think the steel comes from that makes your cars and fancy kitchen appliances?

There is plenty of things Gary can do to improve itself without ridding itself of one of its remaining assets.

Amen Rich!

US Steel is the reason for Gary's existence in the first place. They founded the city more than a century ago, and was named after Elbert Gary.

They own that land, they pay their taxes, and to think that they should be "pushed out" is crazy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2011, 12:15 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 2,173,619 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefoxwarrior View Post
Another stream-of-consciousness thought: I've often wondered if there is a legitimate model that Gary can look to in planning its future. The only comparison I can think of is Oakland, CA. Now there are certain prohibitive differences that limit a comparison analysis...Oakland never fell as hard as Gary did, it has always had a more diverse economy, it's in the middle of a very desirable area, and it's much larger than Gary.

But I think it's a good, and I think the only, example of large-scale gentrification in the US. In no small part, Oakland's gentrification was due to the millions and millions of dollars pumped into the city in the 1990s, which led to businesses occupying vacancies, which led to jobs, which led to gentrification. Now Oakland is still a dangerous city and has a long way to go, but it has clearly already hit the bottom and is going back up.

Despite the differences, there are some similarities between the two cities that I think are worth noting:

(1) They are both located next to major cities in large metropolitan areas
(2) They are located near a large body of water
(3) They are both served by several interstate highways
(4) They are both considered among the most dangerous cities in the US
(5) They both experienced large-scale white flight (more so Gary but Oakland as well)
(6) They are both well-connected to the center of their respective metro areas by public transportation

So, while limited in scope, I think it's worth considering how Oakland is turning around and see to what extent the methods used with Oakland could apply to Gary. Any thoughts?
Even in the current struggling property market, there are several large neighborhoods filled with $500,000-$1,000,000+ homes in Oakland. I didn't see comparable neighborhoods in Gary. If I were to guess, I'd suggest that Gary won't recover until most of the South Side of Chicago gentrifies.

In the unlikely event that were to happen, then developers would look south to Gary for their next big projects. Like it or loathe it, I expect that Gary's future prospects for redevelopment turn on what happens on Chicago's South Side. It's a pity that the entire region has fallen so far to be honest. It's a lovely part of the world and if fixed up, it would have a great deal to offer.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2011, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Northwest Indiana
811 posts, read 2,682,577 times
Reputation: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
Even in the current struggling property market, there are several large neighborhoods filled with $500,000-$1,000,000+ homes in Oakland. I didn't see comparable neighborhoods in Gary. If I were to guess, I'd suggest that Gary won't recover until most of the South Side of Chicago gentrifies.

In the unlikely event that were to happen, then developers would look south to Gary for their next big projects. Like it or loathe it, I expect that Gary's future prospects for redevelopment turn on what happens on Chicago's South Side. It's a pity that the entire region has fallen so far to be honest. It's a lovely part of the world and if fixed up, it would have a great deal to offer.
Never heard of Miller Beach, I take it. Homes there can get prices like that, especially directly on Lake Michigan.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2011, 02:24 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 2,173,619 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by richb View Post
Never heard of Miller Beach, I take it. Homes there can get prices like that, especially directly on Lake Michigan.
Oh, I have, but the houses that command those prices occupy a very small area of a much larger troubled city. Trust me, until you have driven around in the Oakland Hills, Piedmont, Rockridge, etc., it's hard to understand that Oakland is several decades further along the gentrification path. In fact, the two cities aren't even remotely comparable.

It's not Gary's fault or anything. Rather, it's that Oakland's setting is significantly more spectacular and it sits in the middle of one of the most expensive real estate markets on the continent, populated by some of the wealthiest people found anywhere in the United States. Bay area transit is also much better than anything available to the residents of Gary, so that makes the homes in Oakland more attractive to commuters who elect to live on that side of the bay and commute to well-paid jobs in San Francisco.

Last edited by maclock; 10-14-2011 at 02:56 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle
7,423 posts, read 7,474,076 times
Reputation: 10394
Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
Oh, I have, but the houses that command those prices occupy a very small area of a much larger troubled city. Trust me, until you have driven around in the Oakland Hills, Piedmont, Rockridge, etc., it's hard to understand that Oakland is several decades further along the gentrification path. In fact, the two cities aren't even remotely comparable.

It's not Gary's fault or anything. Rather, it's that Oakland's setting is significantly more spectacular and it sits in the middle of one of the most expensive real estate markets on the continent, populated by some of the wealthiest people found anywhere in the United States. Bay area transit is also much better than anything available to the residents of Gary, so that makes the homes in Oakland more attractive to commuters who elect to live on that side of the bay and commute to well-paid jobs in San Francisco.
You're absolutely right-- Undoubtedly the largest factor that weighs in Oakland's favor is that it is located in the middle of the Bay Area, a metro where properties are at a much higher premium than in Chicagoland. However--property values had been soaring in the Bay Area for decades, even in the advent of Silicon Valley, while Oakland remained a terrible, crime-ridden area. My point is that it takes several factors weighing in a city's favor before it can improve. Both the Southside and North Lake County are very well-situated geographically in a massive metro area, and I think if government actors can find a way to tap into that potential, we'll start to see things turn around. Unfortunately--the governor doesn't appear to be that optimistic. Daniels takes shots at Northwest Indiana, Chicago in new book | WBEZ He is correct though, in one regard: it will have to start with jobs..

Last edited by Bluefox; 10-15-2011 at 04:40 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2011, 12:32 PM
 
3,008 posts, read 4,582,618 times
Reputation: 1534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefoxwarrior View Post
You're absolutely right-- Undoubtedly the largest factor that weighs in Oakland's favor is that it is located in the middle of the Bay Area, a metro where properties are at a much higher premium than in Chicagoland. However--property values had been soaring in the Bay Area for decades, even in the advent of Silicon Valley, while Oakland remained a terrible, crime-ridden area. My point is that it takes several factors weighing in a city's favor before it can improve. Both the Southside and North Lake County are very well-situated geographically in a massive metro area, and I think if government actors can find a way to tap into that potential, we'll start to see things turn around. Unfortunately--the governor doesn't appear to be that optimistic. Daniels takes shots at Northwest Indiana, Chicago in new book | WBEZ He is correct though, in one regard: it will have to start with jobs..
Daniels isn't the first governor to take a jab at Lake County and he won't be the last. It's a quagmire of corruption, ineptitude and citizen apathy esp. when it comes to a community that is not theirs. There are tons of natural resources but they are either A, owned or B not in a truly viable location.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL SouthWest Suburbs
3,528 posts, read 5,457,976 times
Reputation: 6126
Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
Daniels isn't the first governor to take a jab at Lake County and he won't be the last. It's a quagmire of corruption, ineptitude and citizen apathy esp. when it comes to a community that is not theirs. There are tons of natural resources but they are either A, owned or B not in a truly viable location.
Why is Mitch Daniels so Anti Lake County?
He says its corrupt but does the line run deeper?

You would think with the county sitting geographically next to the third largest city in the USA he would be all over the county for development.

As far as Gary, IN I just read where a local steel company who employed about 35 people are moving to Illinois.
Universal Steel America in Gary
this was in the chicago southland economic website

I just find it odd MD slams nwi and chicago but does a book signing in chicago.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,894 posts, read 4,853,408 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays View Post
Why is Mitch Daniels so Anti Lake County?
He says its corrupt but does the line run deeper?

You would think with the county sitting geographically next to the third largest city in the USA he would be all over the county for development.

As far as Gary, IN I just read where a local steel company who employed about 35 people are moving to Illinois.
Universal Steel America in Gary
this was in the chicago southland economic website

I just find it odd MD slams nwi and chicago but does a book signing in chicago.
Just like All Politicians he is slamming his opposings parties safe haven.
In reality though i agree the corruption in Lake County is as bad as Chicago.
You could say Chicago's corruption is spilling over into lake County (South side of Chicago touches Hammond)
But luckily lake county can't control the state unlike Chicago cause we have Indy/Fort Wayne amongst other areas to fizzle them out.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2011, 10:36 AM
 
2,118 posts, read 4,764,185 times
Reputation: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post
Just like All Politicians he is slamming his opposings parties safe haven.
In reality though i agree the corruption in Lake County is as bad as Chicago.
You could say Chicago's corruption is spilling over into lake County (South side of Chicago touches Hammond)
But luckily lake county can't control the state unlike Chicago cause we have Indy/Fort Wayne amongst other areas to fizzle them out.
I would argue that while Lake County's corruption may be as bad as Chicago's, I don't think it is due to spillover...it's pretty homegrown/localized!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Indiana > Northwest Indiana
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:30 PM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top