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Old 09-20-2014, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,265 posts, read 43,000,763 times
Reputation: 10231

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I heard this on my last visit to Honolulu. The taxi driver was telling me Honolulu is the 10th largest metro.

Just looked it up online, and saw this article: Is Honolulu really the 10th largest city in the U.S.?

The article basically states that its a campaign the Mayor promotes to push rail. However, according to the article it is not the 10th largest metro.

What do you think? Is it? Or isn't it?
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,761,942 times
Reputation: 6175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I heard this on my last visit to Honolulu. The taxi driver was telling me Honolulu is the 10th largest metro.

Just looked it up online, and saw this article: Is Honolulu really the 10th largest city in the U.S.?

The article basically states that its a campaign the Mayor promotes to push rail. However, according to the article it is not the 10th largest metro.

What do you think? Is it? Or isn't it?
Try #54

List of Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-21-2014, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Aiea, Hawaii
2,417 posts, read 3,232,683 times
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It feels like it is with all the traffic. But it is not the 10th largest metro city. Now in the years ahead with all these high tower condo's going in down in Kakaʻako, and Honolulu, who knows high the population will be.
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,265 posts, read 43,000,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottStielow View Post
It feels like it is with all the traffic. But it is not the 10th largest metro city. Now in the years ahead with all these high tower condo's going in down in Kakaʻako, and Honolulu, who knows high the population will be.
Kakaʻako. First I've heard of it. Looking it up now, pretty ideally located for such a thing.
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:16 AM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,331,813 times
Reputation: 7781
Default Probable reference

The mayor was probably referring to this study.


Here are the top-to-bottom rankings of 102 major markets in September's installment of the On Numbers Economic Index, a monthly measure of economic vitality:
1. Austin
2. Provo, Utah
3. Dallas-Fort Worth
4. Houston
5. Oklahoma City
6. San Jose
7. Ogden, Utah
8. Minneapolis-St. Paul
9. Des Moines, Iowa
10. Honolulu
11. Salt Lake City
12. Boston
13. Grand Rapids, Mich.
14. Denver
15. Nashville
16. Jacksonville
17. Pittsburgh
18. Tulsa
19. Seattle
20. Tampa-St. Petersburg
21. Washington
22. San Francisco-Oakland
23. Little Rock, Ark.
24. Baton Rouge, La.
25. Boise, Idaho
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,265 posts, read 43,000,763 times
Reputation: 10231
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The mayor was probably referring to this study.


Here are the top-to-bottom rankings of 102 major markets in September's installment of the On Numbers Economic Index, a monthly measure of economic vitality:
1. Austin
2. Provo, Utah
3. Dallas-Fort Worth
4. Houston
5. Oklahoma City
6. San Jose
7. Ogden, Utah
8. Minneapolis-St. Paul
9. Des Moines, Iowa
10. Honolulu
11. Salt Lake City
12. Boston
13. Grand Rapids, Mich.
14. Denver
15. Nashville
16. Jacksonville
17. Pittsburgh
18. Tulsa
19. Seattle
20. Tampa-St. Petersburg
21. Washington
22. San Francisco-Oakland
23. Little Rock, Ark.
24. Baton Rouge, La.
25. Boise, Idaho
I have never quite seen a list like that before. Provo and Odgen and Grand Rapids also on the same list. It's a very unusual one for sure, and I can't make sense exactly what it means. Major markets for economic vitality?
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:45 AM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,331,813 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I have never quite seen a list like that before. Provo and Odgen and Grand Rapids also on the same list. It's a very unusual one for sure, and I can't make sense exactly what it means. Major markets for economic vitality?
I included a link to the reference. It clearly has nothing to do with size, as Chicago is 2nd from the bottom.
==============
The other way to look at it is, these are the top 10 cities in USA according to 2010 census.

1 New York New York 8,175,133
2 Los Angeles California 3,792,621
3 Chicago Illinois 2,695,598
4 Houston Texas 2,100,263
5 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 1,526,006
6 Phoenix Arizona 1,445,632
7 San Antonio Texas 1,327,407
8 San Diego California 1,307,402
9 Dallas Texas 1,197,816
10 San Jose California 945,942

The City and County of Honolulu, is a consolidated city–county. The consolidated city-county was established in the city charter adopted in 1907 and accepted by the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaiʻi.As a municipal corporation and jurisdiction it manages aspects of government traditionally exercised by both municipalities and counties in the rest of the United States.

As of the 2010 census, the population was 953,207, which would put it in 10th place.

The census bureau has traditionally ignored this agreement established in 1907 (a half a century before Hawaii became a state), and treats the island as several different "census designated place". Hence they counted 337,256 for the population of Honolulu in 2010.

So, by counting the whole island, the population is about 7K-8K larger than San Jose.
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Old 09-21-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Nashville TN
4,918 posts, read 6,429,635 times
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Hawaii is the most gorgeous place on earth but bad has an insanely high cost of living and its so far away from my family. I would move there today if I could get a job in Hawaii.
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Old 09-21-2014, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,292,706 times
Reputation: 10755
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The mayor was probably referring to this study.
Here are the top-to-bottom rankings of 102 major markets in September's installment of the On Numbers Economic Index, a monthly measure of economic vitality:
I doubt it. He said "largest," and he said it in April 2012. Your article is from September 2013 and has to do with "economic vitality," whatever that means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I have never quite seen a list like that before. Provo and Odgen and Grand Rapids also on the same list. It's a very unusual one for sure, and I can't make sense exactly what it means. Major markets for economic vitality?
Exactly. And it tells you nothing about the criteria or methodology, so who knows... it could have been compiled by throwing darts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
The other way to look at it is, these are the top 10 cities in USA according to 2010 census. <snip>
As of the 2010 census, the (city/county) population was 953,207, which would put it in 10th place.

The census bureau has traditionally ignored this agreement established in 1907 (a half a century before Hawaii became a state), and treats the island as several different "census designated place". Hence they counted 337,256 for the population of Honolulu in 2010.

So, by counting the whole island, the population is about 7K-8K larger than San Jose.
But wait... how do you count the population of Los Angeles? By the number of residents of the actual city? Or the county, which includes several cities? Or the metropolitan area (12.7 million plus!)? Or the Combined Statistical Area of 17.7 million? Or the Census defined CDP? This illustrates one of the key problems in trying to compare cities in this way. You can skew the results if you use different definitions for them.

It's the reason the Census Bureau keeps CDP (Census Defined Place) boundaries unchanged over many decades. It's the only meaningful way to maintain accurate population growth and change statistics over time, by doing their counts within defined, consistent areas.

The mayor engaged in a bit of boastful exaggeration in the process of selling the rail project, as a lot of critics have been saying all along.
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Old 09-21-2014, 04:12 PM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,331,813 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
But wait... how do you count the population of Los Angeles?

The mayor engaged in a bit of boastful exaggeration in the process of selling the rail project, as a lot of critics have been saying all along.
Normally, you refer to a city, a county, and urban area (which does not respect city, county or state boundaries), a PSA and CSA.

The PSA is over 2.5 times the area of the URBAN AREA, but only slightly more in population. The urban area uses criteria developed by the census bureau to calculate the area, but the PSA respects county boundaries. The CSA includes all the counties including San Bernardino county which is mostly desert. It's area is almost as big as Portugal, but much of it is uninhabited.

2010
3,792,621 LA city 503 sq. mi. (34 sq mi water)
9,818,605 LA county 4,751 sq mi
12,150,996 LA--LB--Ana. Urban Area 1,736.0 sq mi
12,828,837 LA-LB Primary Statistical Area 4,850.3 sq. mi.
18,238,998 LA-LB Combined Statistical Area 33,955 sq. mi

To be fair to the mayor of Honolulu, there is no such clear distinctions in Hawaii. The mayor of Honolulu is also in charge of all of Oahu. According to local laws he can refer to the city of Honolulu by the population of the entire island. The census bureau has not been collecting data that way for the past half century, but it is not just boastful exaggeration

Brooklyn has had signs for decades bragging that it is the fourth largest city in America. Brooklyn city was really the 4th largest city in America in 1890, but it merged with NYC in 1898.
Since then the rank of #4 has passed through 5 cities.
St. Louis city, 1900-1910
Detroit city, 1920-1940
Los Angeles, 1950
Philadelphia, 1960-1980
Houston 1990-2010

But Brooklyn would still have a larger population than Houston if it were an independent city.
2,592,149 Brooklyn 2013
2,195,914 Houston 2013
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