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Old 03-15-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Eureka CA
7,574 posts, read 10,387,529 times
Reputation: 11328

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
If you honestly believe a government mandated census is, by default, going to equate to fact, I cannot help you.

The median income is nowhere near $67,000 for a single WORKING resident. Do you really think 50% of our entire Oahu population (i.e. ENTIRE work force) is making at LEAST $67,000? You are so far out of touch with reality, it's not even funny.

Yes, 7% of households have assets in excess of $1M. This is barely 1 in 15 people.
1 in 15 is a LOT!!
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Kailua
8,842 posts, read 11,498,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post

The median income is nowhere near $67,000 for a single WORKING resident. Do you really think 50% of our entire Oahu population (i.e. ENTIRE work force) is making at LEAST $67,000?
I suppose HUD is also lying?

Lets take one of the most unskilled positions, a maid, a job that requires no high school diploma - the most basic of English skills - no other special skills, averages $32,000/year. so it isn't exactly a leap that with a college degree or skilled in a trade like a plumber, you'd be making over $67,000/year

A new police officer makes over $67,000/year - starting base pay is $57,000 + working night differentials + 1.5 times overtime pay.

The guy who cuts my lawn makes about $100,000/year.

A realtor only has to sell 4 single family homes at the median price to make $70,000, that is it - 1 every 3 months.

My uber driver told me the other day if he pushes himself, he can make $2,000 in a week.

Homeownership is at record levels for Hawaii residents - are they all paying cash on their meager salaries, I sure hear a lot of advertisements for mortgages, even with a healthy down payment - you need the salary to justify the payments.

http://dbedt.hawaii.gov/hhfdc/files/...s-Honolulu.pdf

Where are your statistics?

Last edited by whtviper1; 03-15-2015 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Kailua
8,842 posts, read 11,498,538 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
1 in 15 is a LOT!!
Yes!!! At least 1 in 15 households in Hawaii have assets above $1,000,000 excluding the primary home and retirement funds is a lot - in fact it ranks in the top 3 in the United States.

Lets not kid ourselves, a lot of people are making a lot of money on Oahu - otherwise you'd have one big slum.
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Old 03-15-2015, 04:13 PM
Lou Lou started this thread
 
189 posts, read 74,563 times
Reputation: 235
Thank you for your replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichabob View Post
Where on the east coast? It may be helpful to analogize to what you are familiar with?
I live near Philadelphia, but have lived many other places too.

From what I'm reading here, the image of the "average local" in Hawaii isn't one of newlyweds starting out in an apartment for a year or two, then stepping up to a condo or house (in the mainland, that image is being replaced in some sectors by young professionals who become well established before marriage and even buy homes as singles). It sounds like that image of homeownership isn't nearly as prevalent in Hawaii.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
They're living in houses that someone paid $16K for in the 'sixties.
That would certainly be a huge advantage, but I assume that many locals don't have that advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
this is the type of living arrangements for the young people I know and it is fairly common around here.
I knew a guy who lived in Hawaii, and that was the experience he described. He told me about a few of the rentals he went to see (e.g. barely converted garages for almost $1,000 per month), and for quite a while those stories dissuaded me from thinking about Hawaii.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart View Post
honolulu used to be a great place to entertain yourself with very little to no money.
I'm frugal and choose to keep entertainment expenses to a minimum. Dropping $35-40 for two at the cinema, for example, just isn't me. I borrow movies from the library and use Netflix. I'm also about to drop cable and hook up an antenna. But those aren't necessities.

Is there much of a market for manufactured and mobile homes, as well as better communities for them?

Last edited by Lou; 03-15-2015 at 05:32 PM..
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Old 03-15-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Portland OR / Honolulu HI
629 posts, read 684,404 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou View Post
Thank you for your replies.

From what I'm reading here, the image of the "average local" in Hawaii isn't one of newlyweds starting out in an apartment for a year or two, then stepping up to a condo or house. Even that image is probably becoming outdated in the young professional sphere, because many of them become well established and even buy homes as singles. It sounds like that image of homeownership isn't nearly as prevalent in Hawaii
For many young "average locals", even those earning a decent income, they don't start out in their own apartment or immediately buying a house. Instead, many remain with their parents and use that time to save enough $$ for a down payment in order to get started with home ownership.
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Old 03-16-2015, 01:15 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 1,382,060 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
I suppose HUD is also lying?

Lets take one of the most unskilled positions, a maid, a job that requires no high school diploma - the most basic of English skills - no other special skills, averages $32,000/year. so it isn't exactly a leap that with a college degree or skilled in a trade like a plumber, you'd be making over $67,000/year

A new police officer makes over $67,000/year - starting base pay is $57,000 + working night differentials + 1.5 times overtime pay.

The guy who cuts my lawn makes about $100,000/year.

A realtor only has to sell 4 single family homes at the median price to make $70,000, that is it - 1 every 3 months.

My uber driver told me the other day if he pushes himself, he can make $2,000 in a week.

Homeownership is at record levels for Hawaii residents - are they all paying cash on their meager salaries, I sure hear a lot of advertisements for mortgages, even with a healthy down payment - you need the salary to justify the payments.

http://dbedt.hawaii.gov/hhfdc/files/...s-Honolulu.pdf

Where are your statistics?
The Honolulu median HOUSEHOLD income with 3 RESIDENTS PER HOUSEHOLD brings in $72,764. This means 50% of all households make less than $72,764.

Honolulu County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

So please enlighten me as to why you would assume SINGLE working people would make just slightly less than that 3-person HOUSEHOLD figure at $67,000. Maybe the overwhelming percentage of households are single mothers with two kids? You may also want to know the per capita median income is just $30,361.

Thank you for posting extreme examples of earned income ($100K yard maintenance men and $100K Uber drivers... LOLLLL).

And check your math on your realtor's income (you're way off especially after you factor in cost of business).
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Old 03-16-2015, 02:35 AM
 
2,056 posts, read 2,263,662 times
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If you think Hawaii may be difficult to fathom how average people live, look at San Francisco! The apartment I used to live in that was $375 a month (utilities included) is now $3,000 a month plus utilities. That's $9,000 for first, last and deposit, and often people are willing to pay more than the asking rent just to secure a place. I hear over and over of people making $55,000+ a year there and having to live in a room in a house w/ a bunch of other people.

Hawaii is similar. You make do w/ less. If you own your place out right, it's a lot easier. When we were on the Big Island, our condo fee for a SMALL 2 bedroom condo was $350 a month. It still hasn't gone up much 11 years later, but it would cost $1300 - $1500 a month at least to rent it, and it's not in what I would call a great neighborhood either. We're going to be moving back at some point, but it's a bad move financially. We'll be going back to apartment living instead of a roomy house in Florida, but it MAY be worth it to be in a more liberal environment. Only the actual move will tell if it's going to be worth it. There are places on the mainland where its liberal and laid back too, but they also cost big money to live there. The attraction of Hilo, for us, is our old friends and the wife's sons being there.

The comment about wages is spot on. O'ahu jobs tend to pay a lot more than Big Island jobs. Whether that makes up for the more expensive housing and crazy traffic, I don't know. Hawaii has a lot of poverty too, something that hasn't really been mentioned. There are a fair number of folks, mostly what I would call "locals", living in low income government assisted apartments, or out in the boonies in houses/shacks. Anyone that is low income can qualify to live in the housing developments, but I, as a white male, would not feel welcome there. You often see FOR RENT ads that mention that they do, or do not, accept county housing for rent. Most low income, non local people that I know who live on the Big Island live in a group house w/ their own rooms. There are no mobile home communities on the islands to my knowledge. You can't just hook one up to a tractor trailer rig and haul it over.

One day the wife and I took stock of our friends in Hilo, and it was an odd setup. Some were really rich, and one person had a good job w/ the federal government. These people lived well. All the others had come into an inheritance and were living OK until it ran out, or were living in near poverty in areas that I wouldn't want to live in. I once lived in a goat shed in Kea'au that another artist had converted (sorta) into an art studio. Cheap, but the skeeters were too much for me. The idea that someone would move to Hilo from the mainland, get a good job, and move into a home of their own in a good neighborhood just didn't happen. Most newcomers end up subbing in the schools. Doesn't pay a lot of money, but you can get by, and the qualifications are very flexible as they have a big turn over in employees and always need subs.

Last edited by smarino; 03-16-2015 at 03:17 AM..
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Old 03-16-2015, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
9,316 posts, read 17,946,933 times
Reputation: 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou View Post
<SNIP>

Is there much of a market for manufactured and mobile homes, as well as better communities for them?
Nope. None. Zero. Nada. Mobile homes were illegal in Hawaii up until a few years ago and there's still some sort of criteria which keeps them from showing up. You'll see them occasionally as a temporary office at a construction site, but that's about it.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:01 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 1,382,060 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
Nope. None. Zero. Nada. Mobile homes were illegal in Hawaii up until a few years ago and there's still some sort of criteria which keeps them from showing up. You'll see them occasionally as a temporary office at a construction site, but that's about it.
Mobile homes have always been legal. But very few mainland home fabricators build to meet our local building code (e.g. they may not use treated lumber, are not hurricane rated, etc) so they aren't legal here code-wise without significant costly modifications. Even the small RV type mobile homes don't make sense here as there is no legal place to park and live in them. You'd have to park it on land you own as no lessor would allow that. And you would still need to drive it off the lot at least once a year for safety check. They basically make no sense here.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Kailua
8,842 posts, read 11,498,538 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
The Honolulu median HOUSEHOLD income with 3 RESIDENTS PER HOUSEHOLD brings in $72,764. This means 50% of all households make less than $72,764.

So please enlighten me as to why you would assume SINGLE working people would make just slightly less than that 3-person HOUSEHOLD figure at $67,000. Maybe the overwhelming percentage of households are single mothers with two kids? You may also want to know the per capita median income is just $30,361.

Thank you for posting extreme examples of earned income ($100K yard maintenance men and $100K Uber drivers... LOLLLL).

And check your math on your realtor's income (you're way off especially after you factor in cost of business).
According to HUD, 3 people household median is $86,300. Since HUD determines affordable housing and not the census I'll go with HUD. Besides, in an earlier post you said people lie on the census, so they must underreport their incone also, right?

Per capita income??? Really? That just strengthens my argument. Per capita income of $30,361 includes every person in the population whether you are 5 years old or 90 years old. Per capita takes all income and divides by TOTAL population. So let's subtract the kids and retirees and guess what, you'll get to $67,000 median for single workers, lol.

Sell 4 homes at $700,000 x .025 = $70,000 income. Your cost of doing business is tax deductible. Sigh.
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