Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I hope you don't mind me chiming in? I know you responded to pj737. I just thought i would explain that i also love electricity, running water, paved streets ect. I also love modernization. That is not what i meant by mainland thinking. Like what pj737 said "mainland thinking can benefit us to a point. Go too far and it will fail spectacularly" There is many ways this thinking can fail in Hawaii. I will not go into that because this is not the thread for it. The term progress as used on the mainland and its values sometimes has to be examined if its viable for our island home.
Trying to install rail in places it won't work is a favorite SOP of liberals everywhere - not just Hawaii. In most places, it doesn't work very well, but in some cases it is a good fit.
Do you have a solution to the transport issue - one that works for the majority of people? To me, it is the POV. If traffic is too bad, I'd go elsewhere before riding with the masses. I need my own hoss tied up the the rail outside the saloon. I have to live on my schedule, at my convenience, and taking care of my own needs, including transport. I reject, Mass Anything. That's mainland thinking, American thinking, IMHO. Me and my hoss. Her name is Titan, another is called Tundra and the third Tacoma, with a little pony name Celica. Now I gotta go and get some Oats - 87 Octane Oats!!
They need to finish it as it was intended, and I won't vote for anyone who does not intend to finish the rail.
I agree with you that it should be completed as intended as that is what the original plan was for. If you can't get past Middle Street, then the least you can do to still make this rail have any impact is to extend the rail up the hill to Wahiwa / Millilani / Central Oahu. If you can put a dent in the H1 / H2 merge traffic, then at least something positive was accomplished. With planned development along the ridge around Costco / Ka Uka Blvd., it makes more sense to have another line branch off at Pearl City and go up to central Oahu. Also scrap the airport section of the route as it makes no sense if you stop at Middle St. Airport to Ala Moana made sense, Airport to Dillingham bus transfer station does not, since buses already go there from airport.
Folks should have listened to Ben and Panos from the beginning. 1 more thing to think about..... They just finished an expansion of the Panama Canal a couple weeks ago at 5.4 Billion. Our 15 mile rail is costing more than a new Panama Canal!!!
They need to finish it as it was intended, and I won't vote for anyone who does not intend to finish the rail.
This.
It's too late now to say, "let's just stop here." The cat is already out of the proverbial bag and that -was- the voter's will, not the developers or the politicians.
Those last five miles are crucial for folks waking up in the morning, throwing their clothes on, grabbing a coffee and a bagel and heading to their office jobs.
That'd be a waste of 6.8 billion smackers in this one's humble opinion.
Not enough money to finish the 5 miles? A quote for that: "There is nothing tbat cannot be done."
It was their proposal, now it's up to THEM to pull the rabbit out of the hat.
I don't live in Oahu, but I hope to high hell you folks don't let them quit at Middle St. As an above poster said, they will never get around to finishing the last stretch if you guys let them off the hook now. Again, 2 plus 2 etc...
Last edited by American Heart; 07-07-2016 at 01:12 PM..
It seems to me that the ONLY thing that made/makes Hawaii a "modern state" (such that it is) is "Mainland Thinking". It wasn't "Local Thinking" that made progress happen!!
Trying to install rail in places it won't work is a favorite SOP of liberals everywhere - not just Hawaii. In most places, it doesn't work very well, but in some cases it is a good fit.
Do you have a solution to the transport issue - one that works for the majority of people? To me, it is the POV. If traffic is too bad, I'd go elsewhere before riding with the masses. I need my own hoss tied up the the rail outside the saloon. I have to live on my schedule, at my convenience, and taking care of my own needs, including transport. I reject, Mass Anything. That's mainland thinking, American thinking, IMHO. Me and my hoss. Her name is Titan, another is called Tundra and the third Tacoma, with a little pony name Celica. Now I gotta go and get some Oats - 87 Octane Oats!!
Yes, but for the multitudinous amount of folks on the leeward side that DON'T have their own "Hoss", the rail allows them the opportunity to better their live and be able to get around the city with an entirely new level of possibility.
P.S. I am not and vehemently oppose the liberal movement. The rail is needed by a great many people. That's WHY they VOTED it in.
The rail isn't about a single person who owns a fleet of vehicles. It's about the majority. The majority says they need it and feel it will be worth the financial burden.
The people spoke on this with their ballot submission. Mikala seems to be the one poster who appreciates that fact.
Yes, but for the multitudinous amount of folks on the leeward side that DON'T have their own "Hoss", the rail allows them the opportunity to better their live and be able to get around the city with an entirely new level of possibility.
P.S. I am not and vehemently oppose the liberal movement. The rail is needed by a great many people. That's WHY they VOTED it in.
The rail isn't about a single person who owns a fleet of vehicles. It's about the majority. The majority says they need it and feel it will be worth the financial burden.
The people spoke on this with their ballot submission. Mikala seems to be the one poster who appreciates that fact.
Whats interesting about this issue no one mentions is that rail wasn't a new ideal in Oahu. It goes all the way back almost 50 years. No one mentions how many times it was voted down as not a good ideal. I guess proposing it multidifferent ways at different years intel it passes is respecting the "American Way or Voters"?
Whats interesting about this issue no one mentions is that rail wasn't a new ideal in Oahu. It goes all the way back almost 50 years. No one mentions how many times it was voted down as not a good ideal. I guess proposing it multidifferent ways at different years intel it passes is respecting the "American Way or Voters"?
California was the first state to pass medical pot way back when. Be that as it may, and despite a slough of different-angled proposals for recreational use over the years to the voting body of the state, they STILL to-date have decided against full legalization, even as other states bypassed them and ushered it in.
The fact that pot is still only legal for medical patients in Cali after all these years of lobbying and advocacy by both beauracrats and private interests is a testament to the fact that the ultimate will of the people will remain undaunted and choose how it so pleases.
What you're saying is basically slighting the entire voting populous of the islands and implying that after many attempts, the foolhardy, unintelligent voters of HI were somehow deceived and tricked into finally voting in the train. Basically strong-armed into it. I whole-heartedly disagree.
There are never any guarantees when voting a measure into effect that the powers that be will do as they say. And there is no one in HI that is not acutely aware of this. Moreover, they knew they were taking a huge gamble on it, and they decided to roll the dice.
You don't blame the politicians or developers for that. Come what may, that's squarely on Joe Public.
And that is precisely WHY the voters who voted for the rail need to take their own responsibility for their collective action and make SURE the powers that be make good on this very ambitious and very costly proposal.
Those 5 miles will make the difference for a ton of peope who would otherwise be fighting traffic, nevermind the amount of emissions and pollution that is going to be attenuated due to the rail.
Again, not a liberal. The stereotypes don't always apply. In fact, I can't stand Portland, OR, personally speaking. But ya know, Portland desperately needed a rail. And it serves their workforce quite well. Not to mention the tourists love it and it frees up their time and money to patronize the city to a much greater effect. It also allows the locals to travel easier and rapidly so they can ENJOY the city they pay a premium to live in.
Of course you folks know all about paying a premium to live somewhere...why not maximize the potential of all that the Honolulu metro has to offer?
I'm actually not even a progressive by any stretch. I am however, all for progress when it's genuinely needed, but only when it's needed.
Please, don't anyone even bother to argue that one of the most universally KNOWN and statistically-based worst U.S. cities for traffic congestion couldn't use a rail just because you 1. personally have the ability to drive everywhere(not everyone else does ya know - does that even actually matter to you though?), 2. wouldn't deign to 'lower' yourself to ever use icky mass transit and 3. don't have to fight every weekday to get into work Downtown on a strict 9-to-5 schedule.
Honolulu should find a way to get this finished! Whoo! Let's do it guys! YEA!!
Last edited by American Heart; 07-07-2016 at 04:42 PM..
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
2,682 posts, read 7,569,617 times
Reputation: 3882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha State
Whats interesting about this issue no one mentions is that rail wasn't a new ideal in Oahu. It goes all the way back almost 50 years. No one mentions how many times it was voted down as not a good ideal. I guess proposing it multidifferent ways at different years intel it passes is respecting the "American Way or Voters"?
Rail existed on Oahu well before the turn of the century, the 20th century.
Rail existed on Oahu well before the turn of the century, the 20th century.
Your right. I had forgotten about that. Question Jungjohann why isn't it still in existence only upgraded if it was good?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
