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Old 02-02-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,685 posts, read 13,112,581 times
Reputation: 4376

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeyes440 View Post
yep

letting race play a factor either way (ie: requiring some diversity or avoiding it entirely) is misguided and stupid. the best should be hired and if they are all white (or black...or brown, etc) then so be it.
Who job is it to determine who is and who isn't qualified ? They shouldn't be allowed to pick who gets to fill those jobs, the people should be the ones. They are working for us, right ?
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
4,637 posts, read 4,939,399 times
Reputation: 5979
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18 View Post
Ohio Gov. John Kasich names minority affairs director | cleveland.com

What do you think of this? Other than this recent "made up" appointee, Kasich has 0 minorities in his cabinet. They are literally all white. This feels like a 1950s mentality. I thought we had moved to a point where all major races had representation in government. Diversity in government is essential for this state if we want to succeed. It is a diverse state with many different types of people. If the needs of certain groups are not accounted for by the government, the whole state will suffer. Just as the early american colonists deserved representation from their governing bodies, minorities deserve representation as well.

Kasich clearly lacks understanding of the importance of diversity, and other basic issues, and for this reason he scares the living crap out of me. I truly pray for our state these next four years, I fear Kasich will be the worst governor of my lifetime.
He should scare you because he wants to let corporations run the state. The color of the faces of the appointees to his cabinet should be the least of anyone's concerns.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
4,637 posts, read 4,939,399 times
Reputation: 5979
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18 View Post
What you don't understand is that if a group feels they are excluded, whether this is perceived or actual, that group will feel that they are less able to succeed in society. This creates unrest within that group, which causes the state as a whole to suffer. People want representation of their groups in government, and in reality this is only fair, even more so if the group is a large one in the state. Politics is a game, and it's not always about hiring what one person considers to be "the most qualified people". In this country the government is supposed to represent the people, ALL the people, not one man and his own interests.
Consider that you might have your causation reversed. Black people feel they're less able to succeed in society, because of a deeply ingrained inferiority complex, so they conclude that they are "excluded" and demand preferential treatment.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:34 AM
 
142 posts, read 354,063 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuyFromCleveland18 View Post
What you don't understand is that if a group feels they are excluded, whether this is perceived or actual, that group will feel that they are less able to succeed in society. This creates unrest within that group, which causes the state as a whole to suffer. People want representation of their groups in government, and in reality this is only fair, even more so if the group is a large one in the state. Politics is a game, and it's not always about hiring what one person considers to be "the most qualified people". In this country the government is supposed to represent the people, ALL the people, not one man and his own interests.
First, I think you're making some serious generalizations assuming the majority of a minority group feel "excluded." Could some? Sure. But I'd be willing to bet most minorities simply don't care and they just want the best leaders possible, no matter their color. As usual, race baiters and media outlets will blow it out of proportion.

Second, when does it stop? Must a there be Jewish representation too? And gay? What about bi-sexual? It's silly to favor a minority based on skin, sex orientation, etc and simply choose them even if they have inferior qualifications compared to a white person also in the running for the position. Gender, skin color, etc should all be thrown out the window and the focus should be put on a persons qualifications.

I don't think it's "only fair" for every group to be represented in government. How is it fair to favor someone based on their skin color? They should get preferential treatment just because they are a minority?

I also don't understand how it's wrong to NOT hire someone based on skin color, but it's right TO hire someone based on skin color. Seems a bit hypocritical, no?
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:39 AM
 
142 posts, read 354,063 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthBound? View Post
Who job is it to determine who is and who isn't qualified ? They shouldn't be allowed to pick who gets to fill those jobs, the people should be the ones. They are working for us, right ?
Um....the leaders that were elected? If they were elected by "the people," the people should trust their judgment to choose the proper candidates to fill the cabinet.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Northfield, MN
765 posts, read 2,123,423 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeyes440 View Post
First, I think you're making some serious generalizations assuming the majority of a minority group feel "excluded." Could some? Sure. But I'd be willing to bet most minorities simply don't care and they just want the best leaders possible, no matter their color. As usual, race baiters and media outlets will blow it out of proportion.

Second, when does it stop? Must a there be Jewish representation too? And gay? What about bi-sexual? It's silly to favor a minority based on skin, sex orientation, etc and simply choose them even if they have inferior qualifications compared to a white person also in the running for the position. Gender, skin color, etc should all be thrown out the window and the focus should be put on a persons qualifications.

I don't think it's "only fair" for every group to be represented in government. How is it fair to favor someone based on their skin color? They should get preferential treatment just because they are a minority?

I also don't understand how it's wrong to NOT hire someone based on skin color, but it's right TO hire someone based on skin color. Seems a bit hypocritical, no?
As to your first point about generalization, I think that because of the nature of groups and social psychology, when certain members of a group feel excluded they pass that on to other members of the group, and this creates an overall feeling of exclusion for that group. You saying that most minorities don't care about having representatives from their ethnic group in office, I believe is frankly wrong, and I challenge you to ask any member of any ethnic group (including white) how they would feel about having no representatives from their group in office. People look out for the benefits of themselves, their families, and their groups before anyone else.

I never said hire someone with inferior qualifications, but if Kasich looked hard enough he could find someone who was non-white who was just as qualified if not more qualified than the people he is hiring. The truth is that he is hiring his friends into office, not people who are necessarily the most qualified.

As to your final point, my point is that we need diversity in government to represent diversity in society. We shouldn't hire people with poor qualifications, however race, (gender, sexual orientation etc.) should be one of the factors someone looks at when hiring someone for political office. The role of the government is again, to represent the people. The government is not a corporation that only serves to make profits. Government is in place, rather, to ensure stability and contribute to the well being and happiness of the people it represents. If a large minority group is going unrepresented, then a democratic government is not doing it's job. Instead we move more in the direction of totalitarianism, on the path to becoming like Nazi Germany.

Last edited by AGuyFromCleveland18; 02-02-2011 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 12,396,777 times
Reputation: 3169
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthBound? View Post
I'm with you on that one 110% , we're in for a bumpy ride now. Time to leave Ohio as soon as I get a chance.
EB, why do you say that? Hey, you and BJB could move to AK. Seriously is this guy that bad?
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,685 posts, read 13,112,581 times
Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapat528 View Post
EB, why do you say that? Hey, you and BJB could move to AK. Seriously is this guy that bad?
No, it's not just because of him. The jobs here in Ohio are really hard to come by, the weather is playing havoc on my ankle and hand and we're just plain tired of Ohio's weather. Oklahoma has great programs for retired disabled vets and they seem to be one of the few states who want to take care of us.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 12,396,777 times
Reputation: 3169
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthBound? View Post
No, it's not just because of him. The jobs here in Ohio are really hard to come by, the weather is playing havoc on my ankle and hand and we're just plain tired of Ohio's weather. Oklahoma has great programs for retired disabled vets and they seem to be one of the few states who want to take care of us.

I didn't know that about Oklahoma but glad to hear they take good care of our disabled vets. Now that you're not working might be a good time to sell and take off.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,685 posts, read 13,112,581 times
Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapat528 View Post
I didn't know that about Oklahoma but glad to hear they take good care of our disabled vets. Now that you're not working might be a good time to sell and take off.
I wish it was that easy, we have a business and a home to sell before that can happen and with this economy that may take a while.
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