Senate Bill 5 (Columbus, Dayton, Centerville: attorney, gated, compensation)

[davery5872]

I saw an ad on Fox News the other night about how much more public workers make than private workers. I could not find the exact data, but it appears this is true, IF YOU DO NOT COMPARE EDUCATION. When you compare education levels, public workers actually make a little less than private workers.

[buzzards27]

I used to listen to Rush quite a bit back in the 1990's. I cannot begin to count how many times he used term like, CLASS WARFARE or CLASS ENVY, when he would defend the uber wealthy against attacks on their excesses. The premise he pushed was that everyone is entitled to the success and wealth they gather from their work and nobody should question their success.

Now that the mid range middle class is on the warpath about a slight advantage that union workers may, or may not, have I'm wondering where Rush and his ilk are today. Why aren't Rush and the right defending the creativity and hard work of these union workers for doing better that average?

Originally Posted by davery5872

I saw an ad on Fox News the other night about how much more public workers make than private workers. I could not find the exact data, but it appears this is true, IF YOU DO NOT COMPARE EDUCATION. When you compare education levels, public workers actually make a little less than private workers.

Actually, I think based on education and experience, pay for public workers is below private workers, but including medical and all benefits they are compensated somewhat better than private workers. That is primarily because private employers have been cutting pay and benefits for a while now. Right now they are WINNING the race to the bottom.

Of course, once the GOP breaks the unions and cuts their pay, they will be coming after the non-union workers again, because that is what they do. If they succeed here there will be no stopping them, private employees will see ever greater rounds of cuts, and everyone will suffer.

[cyberdasher]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

Now that the mid range middle class is on the warpath about a slight advantage that union workers may, or may not, have I'm wondering where Rush and his ilk are today. Why aren't Rush and the right defending the creativity and hard work of these union workers for doing better that average?

Because their above average benefits are almost entirely due to their ability to collectively negotiate wages and benefits with public employers, regardless of any external market labor factors. What's there to defend? How creatively a labor contract is negotiated?

. . . .

Right now they are WINNING the race to the bottom.

More of a race to equilibrium.

Of course, once the GOP breaks the unions and cuts their pay, they will be coming after the non-union workers again, because that is what they do. If they succeed here there will be no stopping them, private employees will see ever greater rounds of cuts, and everyone will suffer.

When has this ever happened? Have any relevant examples?

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by cyberdasher

Because their above average benefits are almost entirely due to their ability to collectively negotiate wages and benefits with public employers, regardless of any external market labor factors. What's there to defend? How creatively a labor contract is negotiated?

If you had been paying attention you would have known that many public worker contracts have included no pay raises or reduced pay. All caused by "external market labor factors". To my knowledge all public employees are paying more for their health care. I know a school district where I live the amount a teacher pays for health care has increased by 500% over tha past ten years.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by davery5872

If you had been paying attention you would have known that many public worker contracts have included no pay raises or reduced pay. All caused by "external market labor factors". To my knowledge all public employees are paying more for their health care. I know a school district where I live the amount a teacher pays for health care has increased by 500% over tha past ten years.

Well in my school distrct the teachers are paying for a family of four what I pay for just myself.

Apears to be a lot of differences between districts.

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Well in my school distrct the teachers are paying for a family of four what I pay for just myself.

Apears to be a lot of differences between districts.

That there is. I read about one district where they are paying less than 5% of the premiums. But them again, I do not know their pay scale. It could be really low. In BS 5, it says that teachers must pay 15% of their premium. Why? In some districts, this could force an increase in salaries to compensate for the increased premium. This another example of the "one size fits all" approach, from people who have no knowledge of education. Just like "No Child Left Behind" mandating that ALL students are proficient by 2014. All students? Really?

[cyberdasher]

Originally Posted by davery5872

If you had been paying attention you would have known that many public worker contracts have included no pay raises or reduced pay. All caused by "external market labor factors".

I was specifically addressing buzzard's rhetorical observation. If PEU's are sooo responsive to external market forces, then why the need for collective bargaining?

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by cyberdasher

I was specifically addressing buzzard's rhetorical observation. If PEU's are sooo responsive to external market forces, then why the need for collective bargaining?

Collective bargaining is more than just about money.

[cyberdasher]

I'm pretty sure it is, too

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by cyberdasher

I'm pretty sure it is, too

I'm not "pretty sure", I know it's not.