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For Cincinnati: very insular. People from there think it's the best city around, mostly because that's the only place they've ever lived. It's also very conservative, and not very hip or stylish. I don't know why, but I have a somewhat better impression of Dayton for some reason. It strikes me as more similar to my native Cleveland, or perhaps Youngstown in its industrial roots, and current state of post-industrial economic depression. It seems like a city that's trying to reinvent itself, like Northeast Ohio is.
To be fair, there are a ton of people in Cleveland that don't know any cities other than Cleveland. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing though. Places that are too transient frequently come across as unfriendly and sterile to me. I think Dayton is more like Youngstown, only blander. Nothing at all like Cleveland. Cleveland is fun, has culture and is similarly sized to Cincinnati. Dayton is blah. I think Cleveland and Cincinnati are the state's top 2 cities, all things considered. You can fight over which one is which.
For Cincinnati: very insular. People from there think it's the best city around, mostly because that's the only place they've ever lived. It's also very conservative, and not very hip or stylish. I don't know why, but I have a somewhat better impression of Dayton for some reason. It strikes me as more similar to my native Cleveland, or perhaps Youngstown in its industrial roots, and current state of post-industrial economic depression. It seems like a city that's trying to reinvent itself, like Northeast Ohio is.
I think Cincinnati is the best city around and I've lived in the following places:
I've also spent quite a bit of time on the east side of Cleveland (Willoughby, Cleveland Heights, Coventry area). I like Cleveland a lot and always have a good time there.
Far from the rose-colored glasses theory, among people I knew growing up, Cincinnati was pretty lame. Of course, none of us knew what it was like to live anywhere else. I didn't really think it was bad or good (realizing I had no frame of reference), but I figured the prevailing wisdom must have something to it, and I probably participated in Cincinnati-bashing on a few occasions.
Since college, I've lived only in larger cities, on the east coast and overseas. It was living in Europe that made me realize what a special place Cincinnati was. It's unique and handsome and culturally rich and a fun and interesting place to live or visit. It has some problems, many of which are neatly confined to the suburbs. It's also making great strides to overcome many of those problems, bringing new life and transit to the urban core.
Whatever mud you want to toss at the city "conservative, insular, more-like-Kentucky-than-Ohio" is fine (not that I agree), but I would dispute-till-kingdom-come that Cincinnati is not the most unique and culturally interesting city in the state. Whether that makes the city more or less appealing to live in is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. The state would be losing a lot of flavor without Cincinnati.
I will comment on the "more like KY" thing: part of this idea is right -- that Cincinnati doesn't identify much with Ohio. But it identifies even less with KY or IN. My suspicion is that, since when Cincinnati was hitting its stride, there was nothing else very relevant in Ohio and Cincinnati was indisputably top dog, it just never developed a sense of giving-a-%$%# about the rest of the state. I mean, heck, you guys stole the capital from Cincy and gave it to some manufactured cow town (at the time -- not commenting on modern-day Cbus!). How do you expect Cincinnatians to react? Cincy is a German Catholic town, which is a northern immigration pattern not fitting in with KY. It's also not a union town, like much of Ohio (Dayton, Toledo, Cleveland, Youngstown, etc.), so there are fundamental disconnects on both sides.
Which brings me to the point about Dayton: Cincinnati and Dayton are surprisingly disconnected culturally, for being two cities in close proximity with overlapping suburbs. And the suburbs are a different animal from either city. It's hard for me to think of SWO as much of a cohesive region, which is a shame as it should function as more of one. Cincinnati, Dayton, Hamilton, Middletown, Lebanon... Maybe if there were more regional cooperation all these municipalities could have avoided having (at least some of) their economies raped by the sprawlmonster.
...It was living in Europe that made me realize what a special place Cincinnati was. It's unique and handsome and culturally rich and a fun and interesting place to live or visit. It has some problems, many of which are neatly confined to the suburbs. It's also making great strides to overcome many of those problems, bringing new life and transit to the urban core.
Whatever mud you want to toss at the city "conservative, insular, more-like-Kentucky-than-Ohio" is fine (not that I agree), but I would dispute-till-kingdom-come that Cincinnati is not the most unique and culturally interesting city in the state. Whether that makes the city more or less appealing to live in is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. The state would be losing a lot of flavor without Cincinnati...
() Sure hope you're packin' some heat, natininja. Already upstate, war drums are beating and vigilante posses from the other "2-Cs" are on the move...
Which brings me to the point about Dayton: Cincinnati and Dayton are surprisingly disconnected culturally, for being two cities in close proximity with overlapping suburbs.
Finally. I was beginning to think I was the only one to realize the stark differences.
Far from the rose-colored glasses theory, among people I knew growing up, Cincinnati was pretty lame. Of course, none of us knew what it was like to live anywhere else. I didn't really think it was bad or good (realizing I had no frame of reference), but I figured the prevailing wisdom must have something to it, and I probably participated in Cincinnati-bashing on a few occasions.
Since college, I've lived only in larger cities, on the east coast and overseas. It was living in Europe that made me realize what a special place Cincinnati was. It's unique and handsome and culturally rich and a fun and interesting place to live or visit. It has some problems, many of which are neatly confined to the suburbs. It's also making great strides to overcome many of those problems, bringing new life and transit to the urban core.
Whatever mud you want to toss at the city "conservative, insular, more-like-Kentucky-than-Ohio" is fine (not that I agree), but I would dispute-till-kingdom-come that Cincinnati is not the most unique and culturally interesting city in the state. Whether that makes the city more or less appealing to live in is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. The state would be losing a lot of flavor without Cincinnati.
I will comment on the "more like KY" thing: part of this idea is right -- that Cincinnati doesn't identify much with Ohio. But it identifies even less with KY or IN. My suspicion is that, since when Cincinnati was hitting its stride, there was nothing else very relevant in Ohio and Cincinnati was indisputably top dog, it just never developed a sense of giving-a-%$%# about the rest of the state. I mean, heck, you guys stole the capital from Cincy and gave it to some manufactured cow town (at the time -- not commenting on modern-day Cbus!). How do you expect Cincinnatians to react? Cincy is a German Catholic town, which is a northern immigration pattern not fitting in with KY. It's also not a union town, like much of Ohio (Dayton, Toledo, Cleveland, Youngstown, etc.), so there are fundamental disconnects on both sides.
Which brings me to the point about Dayton: Cincinnati and Dayton are surprisingly disconnected culturally, for being two cities in close proximity with overlapping suburbs. And the suburbs are a different animal from either city. It's hard for me to think of SWO as much of a cohesive region, which is a shame as it should function as more of one. Cincinnati, Dayton, Hamilton, Middletown, Lebanon... Maybe if there were more regional cooperation all these municipalities could have avoided having (at least some of) their economies raped by the sprawlmonster.
I completely agree 100% with what you say. Cincinnati is absolutely the most culturally rich city in the state. The rest of the state has PLENTY to offer. Cleveland is a powerful city and Columbus is just plain fun. But Cincinnati has a mystical, storied history that unfolds with time. I find that people are generally fascinated by the city at first, learn to hate the city for a time, then realize that they can't forget the city. It's unique, stable, and beautiful. I was born and raised in Wisconsin, but Cincinnati will always be my home.
Cincinnati is absolutely the most colorful, interesting, beautiful, charming, quirky place I've ever lived. It's endearing and unforgettable. None other than Winston Churchill said it was America's most beautiful inland city.
Perhaps the disconnect between Cincinnati and Ohio is the fact that Cincinnati isn't really like much of the rest of Ohio. The QC is a combination of so many different places that its culture isn't able to be duplicated anywhere else. There are parts of Cincinnati that are European, parts that are East Coast, parts that are Southern, parts that are Midwest, parts that are like northern Ohio, parts that are more like Lexington ... heck, even parts that are California (Mount Adams).
These comments just reflect how insular Cincinnatians are. Every city has different architectural styles within it, not just Cincinnati, and I can point to people who said Cleveland was the "best location in the nation" at one time too. These things are not unique to Cincinnati. It may have more flavor than anything around it, but it does not have more flavor than any other major city in the country.
> These comments just reflect how insular Cincinnatians are.
Would be interesting to know what your definition of 'insular' is, which applies to people who have lived in many different places, people who grew up far from the area, and people (like me) who have lived hundreds to thousands of miles away from the city for the past decade.
> Every city has different architectural styles within it, not just Cincinnati
Architecture is only one aspect of what makes the city unique, but it is true that Cincinnati's architecture is on one of the upper-tiers of American cities.
> I can point to people who said Cleveland was the "best location in the nation" at one time too.
No one is claiming Cincinnati is the best location in the nation. Nice strawman.
> These things are not unique to Cincinnati. It may have more flavor than anything around it, but it does not have more flavor than any other major city in the country.
More strawmen. No one said it had more flavor than any other major city in the country. The closest such claim might have been my own, which was that it had more flavor than any other city in Ohio.
Here is a link to a post made by a Clevelander on another forum in response to a post I made describing some of the special things about Cincinnati. It was in a thread about how Ohio can become a "high-growth state", my post being about what can be marketed, at least for one part of the state.
Spoiler: Unprompted, the Clevelander says Cincinnati is in its own league (in Ohio) in terms of uniqueness, and it has the most squandered branding potential. And then no Clevelanders, Columbusites, or anyone chimes in to say "wtf? how insular of you!"
Whether the city's uniqueness rings your bell is another issue, but Cincinnati has more of it than other Ohio cities. I'd say it's mostly a function of history and topography. Check out this graph to see what Cincinnati's historic peers were:
Notice the other river cities (STL, PGH, Louisville) boomed afterward, and the lake cities (CHI, DET, CLE) all came after that. Cincy was the 5th biggest city in the country before Cleveland registers at all. Age, plus the hills the city is built on, gave the city a completely different development pattern and cultural blend, much more unique.
Things either are "unique" (defined: unlike anything else) or are not. There are no degrees of "uniqueness."
Sorry, I just am irked my the misuse of the word. As you were.
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) Sure hope you're packin' some heat, natininja. Already upstate, war drums are beating and vigilante posses from the other "2-Cs" are on the move...
