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Old 03-13-2013, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
16,259 posts, read 16,928,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Judging by the decades long exodus from Hamilton county to exurban counties, I would say more suburban.
In that area's defense, many other areas have followed similar patterns including ones in OH.
Every city in Ohio followed this pattern, including Columbus. However, there are FAR worse suburban cities out there in other states. Look at cities in NC, Texas, Florida, etc.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Every city in Ohio followed this pattern, including Columbus. However, there are FAR worse suburban cities out there in other states. Look at cities in NC, Texas, Florida, etc.
I've been to Charlotte and have family in Raleigh. You couldn't pay me to live in either city. Not my cup of tea.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:25 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,788,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
ROFL! I might have to move back then.

Sidney is a good 40 miles to the north of Dayton. Strange they add that to Dayton and not Dayton to Cincy. But what more do we actually expect from the Feds.

Not really. Dayton has a relatively large and defined urban core. Sidney doesn't. Economically, Dayton is the urban center of impact for Sidney.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:40 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,788,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMahValley View Post
Dayton not only is its own city, it's its own metro area. Most of what you're looking at with CSA's are your commuting patterns as a major factor. Maybe because Eastern Kentucky is about as hopeless as one can get, a lot are commuting to Cincinnati for jobs. But 75 between Dayton and Cincinnati has horrible traffic and proves without a doubt that they are linked.
There's bad traffic between San Diego and Los Angeles. Does that mean they're "linked" too? It essentially just means that I-75 is the perceived best all-points route in the area (because it likely is).

Undoubtedly, the I-75 corridor is undersized because it is the only North-South freeway through both cities and is undoubtedly the funnel for the western half of the state. Cleveland and Akron have the same issue even though there are 2 freeways between the areas. They're widening I-77 and extending SR 8 because of it. Yet, our MSAs are still considered separate even though there is no distinct boundary between the two other than a county line.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:11 PM
 
909 posts, read 1,326,486 times
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Until last year, you could go at least 50mph on State Route 4 from Dayton to Middletown, and between the new 4 in Middletown and the 4 bypass around Hamilton, outside of having to drive through part of Middletown, there was a decent alternate route from Dayton to the 275 beltway.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:55 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,586 posts, read 2,679,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
There's bad traffic between San Diego and Los Angeles. Does that mean they're "linked" too? It essentially just means that I-75 is the perceived best all-points route in the area (because it likely is).

Undoubtedly, the I-75 corridor is undersized because it is the only North-South freeway through both cities and is undoubtedly the funnel for the western half of the state. Cleveland and Akron have the same issue even though there are 2 freeways between the areas. They're widening I-77 and extending SR 8 because of it. Yet, our MSAs are still considered separate even though there is no distinct boundary between the two other than a county line.

San Diego to LA county 6,684.
San Diego to Orange county 18,788.
San Diego to Riverside county 7,400
San Diego to San Bernardino county 1,383
34,255

La county to San Diego 6,734.
Orange county to San Diego 13,904.
Riverside county to San Diego 38,830. That's not a small number.
San Bernardino county to San Diego county 2,062.
61,530

So the cross commuter is 95,785 or 7.2%.

San Diego has 1,332,768 jobs. For the 15% inclusion with local opinion they need the exchange to be 199,915. For the automatic inclusion they need 25% or 333,192 commuters to be combined.

Dayton has 412,100 jobs. For the 15% with local opinion they need only 61,815 or 103,025 for automatic inclusion at 25%

Montgomery county to Hamilton county,Butler county, Warren county and Clermont county 13,018.
Greene county to Hamilton county,Butler county, Warren county and Clermont county 2,250.
Miami county to Hamilton county,Butler county, Warren county and Clermont county 531.
15,799

Hamilton county to Montgomery county, Greene county and Miami county 2,007.
Butler county to Montgomery county, Greene county and Miami county 5,172.
Clermont county to Montgomery county, Greene county and Miami county 261.
Warren county to Montgomery county, Greene county and Miami county 14,993
22,433

I came up with 38,232 commuters or 9.3%. I didn't bother with any of the Indiana or Ky counties since I doubt it makes up more than 2000 more commuters combined.

That's a deficit of 23583 commuters. If the two will combine it will have to be through urban area's or that Austin interchange better explode the next decade. lol Commuter rail would help these numbers greatly.

It's strange how there is more commuters from the Cincinnati MSA that works to the Dayton MSA than vice versa. That's do to the Dayton urbanized area surging into northern warren county.

Of course I could have flaws. I didn't use the 2010 Civilian labor force when everyone's economy was in the tank. I used the most resent numbers.

sources
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/index.html Looking at some individual counties.
http://www.census.gov/population/metro/data/other.html For commutes.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...013/b13-01.pdf for current MSA definitions.

Last edited by unusualfire; 03-14-2013 at 04:03 AM..
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,586 posts, read 2,679,287 times
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Im not sure how Tuscarawas County was added to Cleveland's CSA. Very very few people commute from New philly to the Cleveland metro. If anything it should be a part of Canton's CSA which it does have an above 15% commute to Stark county. The only reason Canton is in Cleveland's CSA is because 22,000+ travel to summit county from stark county. 3000 travel to Cuyahoga county. Just over 9,000 traveled from Summit to Stark county for work. And a little over 700 from Cuyahoga to Stark county.

It was like a domino effect.

Sandusky(Erie county) was added because just over 3000 commuters traveled to Lorain county for work. And 2000 commuters form Lorain went to Erie county for work.

Cambridge is in because they have commuter going to Zanesville and Zanesville was in because they had commuters going to Licking county. Another Domino effect.

Did they forget about the core based counties in the CSA definitions?

I found many counties near the Cincinnati MSA that's over the 15% threshold. Ripley and Franklin counties in Indiana. Highland and Adams county in Ohio.

Im not sure what happened to Preble county over 50% work in Montgomery county. And that's 4000+ commuters taken away from the Cincinnati and Dayton metro's.

Last edited by unusualfire; 03-14-2013 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:08 AM
 
5,111 posts, read 6,788,601 times
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I think the amount of through traffic on I-75 is being significantly discounted and outright dismissed - it's a major transportation artery. Yes all interstates are to a degree, but some are particularly significant and I-75 is one of them. The point being, it's a lot more than commuters on it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,041 posts, read 5,666,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Not really. Dayton has a relatively large and defined urban core. Sidney doesn't. Economically, Dayton is the urban center of impact for Sidney.
Really, Sidney has a lot in it for a small town. Having lived in New Bremen for a number of years, I did most of my shopping, medical care, etc. in Sidney. Sidney has a downtown business district, hospital, shopping, etc. When I lived in the area I would take the trek to Dayton more for entertainment purposes and seldom at that.

My child was born in Dayton, but he had medical conditions that excluded the hospital in Sidney because Dayton Children's could handle his care. His care eventually transferred to Cincinnati Children's because Dayton Children's could not handle what he needed either. (My child is doing fine now - healthy and normal)

So from my perspective of having lived in New Bremen, Dayton, and now Cincinnati - the CSA that were announced are ridiculous. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. But there is way too much being downplayed between Cincinnati and Dayton. Others have done a good enough job pointing out the inconsistencies, that I don't really care to repeat them.

I would say that Cincinnati is the regions economic center of impact on Dayton in the same way that Dayton is to Sidney.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:44 AM
 
2,290 posts, read 3,648,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusualfire View Post
It was like a domino effect.
Exactly. This is one of the weirdest CSAs in the country... certainly cannot be confused with a "metro region".
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