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Old 07-31-2015, 07:29 AM
 
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I wouldnt care about liberal vs conservative or hell knows what else. Ohioans keep intensely to themselves, probably they will not even care to know your name not speaking of your politics or religion, there will be no pressure, everybody will be ignored the same. Other than that, I love it here, climate, geography, landscape, diversity of 3, cross roads, rural-urban balance, it is just my cup of a tea. It is not that particularly cheap, it has probably the money hungriest medical industry (while being less than stellarly competent) with respect to average incomes, moving from a well off part of TN to the rustbelt Ohio almost tripled my dentist bills (per unit of work done). Ohioans should seriously consider medical/dental tourism. Property taxes bite, state&local taxes bite (an average earner), culture is bland or rather non-existent, but if you can entertain and socialize yourself it shouldnt matter.

Last edited by RememberMee; 07-31-2015 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 07-31-2015, 08:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I wouldnt care about liberal vs conservative or hell knows what else. Ohioans keep intensely to themselves, probably they will not even care to know your name not speaking of your politics or religion, there will be no pressure, everybody will be ignored the same. Other than that, I love it here, climate, geography, landscape, diversity of 3, cross roads, rural-urban balance, it is just my cup of a tea. It is not that particularly cheap, it has probably the money hungriest medical industry (while being less than stellarly competent) with respect to average incomes, moving from a well off part of TN to the rustbelt Ohio almost tripled my dentist bills (per unit of work done). Ohioans should seriously consider medical/dental tourism. Property taxes bite, state&local taxes bite (an average earner), culture is bland or rather non-existent, but if you can entertain and socialize yourself it shouldnt matter.
Saying that culture in Ohio is bland is a very uninformed comment. E.g., Cleveland is one of the nation's cultural centers, with one of the world's most acclaimed orchestras, perhaps the best summer classic music venue, and one of the nation's best art museums.

Cincinnati also is a very good cultural center.

Art museums in Toledo and Youngstown also are excellent.

Ohio has several of the best zoos in the U.S.
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Old 07-31-2015, 08:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Saying that culture in Ohio is bland is a very uninformed comment. E.g., Cleveland is one of the nation's cultural centers, with one of the world's most acclaimed orchestras, perhaps the best summer classic music venue, and one of the nation's best art museums.

Cincinnati also is a very good cultural center.

Art museums in Toledo and Youngstown also are excellent.

Ohio has several of the best zoos in the U.S.
I didnt mean culture in that academic, exalted entertainment sense. Sure, major OH cities have a fair share of it.

I meant this:
A culture is a way of life of a group of people--the behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next.
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Old 07-31-2015, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I didnt mean culture in that academic, exalted entertainment sense. Sure, major OH cities have a fair share of it.

I meant this:
A culture is a way of life of a group of people--the behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next.
Well, that definition would include sports, and if you've ever experienced a game day at Ohio State, Ohio Friday night lights, a Cavs game, etc., etc., your statement is even more bunk. Have you ever been to a Skull Session or seen the TBDBITL perform? These are some of the best rituals in the U.S.

Watch the documentary, "Go Tigers," some day.

However, high culture is not exalted and academic. Buy some $10 smart seats at PlayhouseSquare in Cleveland some day, or visit the Cleveland Museum of Art which has free admission (as do many Ohio museums) and learn just how ignorant your comment and distinctions are IMO.

Attend a free Star-Spangled Spectacular some day in Cleveland, or attend a festival band concert at Blossom Music Center. Culture is not regimented, but inter-locked and dynamic.

Some of the TBDBITL members took lessons from members of the Cleveland Orchestra at the Cleveland Institute of Music.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Well, that definition would include sports, and if you've ever experienced a game day at Ohio State, Ohio Friday night lights, a Cavs game, etc., etc., your statement is even more bunk. Have you ever been to a Skull Session or seen the TBDBITL perform? These are some of the best rituals in the U.S.

Watch the documentary, "Go Tigers," some day.

However, high culture is not exalted and academic. Buy some $10 smart seats at PlayhouseSquare in Cleveland some day, or visit the Cleveland Museum of Art which has free admission (as do many Ohio museums) and learn just how ignorant your comment and distinctions are IMO.

Attend a free Star-Spangled Spectacular some day in Cleveland, or attend a festival band concert at Blossom Music Center. Culture is not regimented, but inter-locked and dynamic.

Some of the TBDBITL members took lessons from members of the Cleveland Orchestra at the Cleveland Institute of Music.
Read the definition again, looks like you've missed lots of words the first time. Ohio has no authentic culture, period, not even a glimpse or a fake replica of the things past. Centrally distributed mass cult defines Ohio culture. It's hard to expect an original culture considering Ohioan history as a blue collar melting pot, a pot that cracked and was thrown out leaving underclass to soak in the latest fads as seen on TV.

Ostentatious obsession about some gosh forsaken sports team bored locals use as a badge of belonging, darn, it's so unheard of elsewhere, you cant be serious to even mention that. To be fair, it makes up a little for the depravities of Ohioan life, if you are into that crap and you dont find a little faking distasteful. Another piece of "culture", but it's more like midwestern culture, a few surviving local newspapers dedicating up to 50% of their space to HS sport, it makes you wanna howl at the moon, it's so sad and pathetic.

Last edited by RememberMee; 07-31-2015 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:15 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,300,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Read the definition again, looks like you've missed lots of words the first time. Ohio has no authentic culture, period, not even a glimpse or a fake replica of the things past. Centrally distributed mass cult defines Ohio culture. It's hard to expect an original culture considering Ohioan history as a blue collar melting pot, a pot that cracked and was thrown out leaving underclass to soak in the latest fads as seen on TV.

Ostentatious obsession about some gosh forsaken sports team bored locals use as a badge of belonging, darn, it's so unheard of elsewhere, you cant be serious to even mention that. To be fair, it makes up a little for the depravities of Ohioan life, if you are into that crap and you dont find a little faking distasteful. Another piece of "culture", but it's more like midwestern culture, a few surviving local newspapers dedicating up to 50% of their space to HS sport, it makes you wanna howl at the moon, it's so sad and pathetic.
Your ignorance is profound and your inane statements would be mocked by knowledgeable persons across the country.

Just considering Cleveland, of which I'm most familiar:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/ar...-festival.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Orchestra

Building History

Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis

Blossom Music Center

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Museum_of_Art

http://www.cleveland.com/onstage/ind...wins_cove.html

Cleveland: PlayhouseSquare - TripAdvisor

Great Urban Weekend Escapes: Cleveland - Forbes

These are just the most prominent cultural institutions.

There is considerable newspaper coverage of cultural events in Cleveland. What TN newspaper has provided similar coverage in the last several weeks?

http://www.cleveland.com/arts/

http://www.cleveland.com/music/index.ssf/friday/

http://www.cleveland.com/music/

http://www.cleveland.com/onstage/

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/...on?oid=1392924

Cleveland's history as a great ethnic melting pot isn't belittled in Cleveland, it is celebrated. Is there anything like this anywhere else in the U.S., or even the world?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevel...ltural_Gardens

Cleveland Cultural Gardens

You won't find Kurentovanje anywhere else in the U.S.

Cleveland Kurentovanje

We immerse ourselves in the cultures of the world, even our highly respected foodie scene is rooted firmly in ethnic and mod ethnic traditions. This tradition is anchored by the West Side Market, the largest surviving, pure food public market in the U.S.

Cleveland: West Side Market - TripAdvisor

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g5....Overview.html

Surrounding Cleveland to the south and east is Ohio Amish Country, the largest Amish community in the world. If you want preserved cultural traditions, where else in the U.S. can you best escape to the 19th century than eastern Holmes County?

Ohio: Ohio Amish Country - TripAdvisor

Make no mistake that just like in Texas and a few other states, football is much more in Ohio than a spectator sport. It's an often shared experience of sharp physical activity on crisp falls days and even in deep snow. If you don't believe that football is a cultural experience in Ohio, you truly lack a grasp of the meaning of "culture."

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...mbus_Ohio.html

What's your definition of culture: country music to the exclusion of the entire rest of the human experience? Admittedly, in much of Ohio, country music isn't that popular.

You seem to believe that a multifarious culture that incorporates a vast array of the human experience is inferior to a homogenous culture perhaps as you experienced in TN. The logic of that type of thinking escapes me, and I can only assume it's rooted in hubris and bias, explaining the contorted reasoning and angrily dismissive tone of your posts on this topic.

Just because many Ohioans prefer marching bands, Mozart, and a polka Happy Hour to the Grand Ole Opry, doesn't mean that they are less cultured than a condescending Tennessee transplant. In fact, because few of us would dismiss country music given our eclectic tastes, and actually enjoy visits to Tennesse's great music cities, many might consider us much more cultured in the true sense of the word.

Last edited by WRnative; 07-31-2015 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 07-31-2015, 03:01 PM
 
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I also should have mentioned that the cultural emphasis in Cleveland is on inclusion, to the extent of reshaping the city to reflect the emergence of the 21st century global community.

The Cleveland Museum of Art's redesign emphasizes cultural diversity: CMA 2014 | cleveland.com
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Old 07-31-2015, 04:14 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,545,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Your ignorance is profound and your inane statements would be mocked by knowledgeable persons across the country.
Sorry, you could not grasp a very simple definition (I didnt write).

Quote:
Just considering Cleveland, of which I'm most familiar:
Is that hard to undertand the meaning of "a way of life people accept, generally without thinking about them", or without relying on businesses, commitees, mass manufactured goods and experiences, professional entertainers, etc. ?

Quote:
Cleveland's history as a great ethnic melting pot isn't belittled in Cleveland, it is celebrated. Is there anything like this anywhere else in the U.S., or even the world?
What is left of it? Did it impact culture in the broad sense per that definition you cannot grasp?

Quote:
You won't find Kurentovanje anywhere else in the U.S.
Do you grasp the difference between spontaneous and organized? It's ethnically themed entertainment much like pierogy, i.e. foodstuff that doesnt resemble the original neither in appearance, taste nor pronunciation. A non authentic, manufactured spectacle run as a business to facilitate separation of seekers of "authentic" with their money. It's not culture, it is a business, and so are ethnically themed restoraunts catering to the seekers of the exotic while MacDonalds serves breakfast to everybody else.

Quote:
Surrounding Cleveland to the south and east is Ohio Amish Country, the largest Amish community in the world. If you want preserved cultural traditions, where else in the U.S. can you best escape to the 19th century than eastern Holmes County?
How Amishes impacted the culture of the rest of Ohioans? It is the other way around. You cannot escape to 19th century, buggies sharing the paved roads with 70 mph cars is not an escape, as well as horse drawn herbicide sprayers, or a group of Amish people having the time of their life at a MacDonalds.

Quote:
Make no mistake that just like in Texas and a few other states, football is much more in Ohio than a spectator sport. It's an often shared experience of sharp physical activity on crisp falls days and even in deep snow. If you don't believe that football is a cultural experience in Ohio, you truly lack a grasp of the meaning of "culture."
I dont believe it a minute. Unless little inmates are not uniformed, organized, bused and supervized, they dont play that game, period. Which makes it a passive, commercial entertainment mass produced people identify themselves with for the lack of authentic identity claims unrelated to multibillion commercial enterprises.

Quote:
What's your definition of culture:
I provided a clearcut definition. It is too bad modern people have lost slightest grasp on it to become passive consumers of the things they no longer create.
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Sorry, you could not grasp a very simple definition (I didnt write).

Is that hard to undertand the meaning of "a way of life people accept, generally without thinking about them", or without relying on businesses, commitees, mass manufactured goods and experiences, professional entertainers, etc. ?



What is left of it? Did it impact culture in the broad sense per that definition you cannot grasp?


Do you grasp the difference between spontaneous and organized? It's ethnically themed entertainment much like pierogy, i.e. foodstuff that doesnt resemble the original neither in appearance, taste nor pronunciation. A non authentic, manufactured spectacle run as a business to facilitate separation of seekers of "authentic" with their money. It's not culture, it is a business, and so are ethnically themed restoraunts catering to the seekers of the exotic while MacDonalds serves breakfast to everybody else.

How Amishes impacted the culture of the rest of Ohioans? It is the other way around. You cannot escape to 19th century, buggies sharing the paved roads with 70 mph cars is not an escape, as well as horse drawn herbicide sprayers, or a group of Amish people having the time of their life at a MacDonalds.


I dont believe it a minute. Unless little inmates are not uniformed, organized, bused and supervized, they dont play that game, period. Which makes it a passive, commercial entertainment mass produced people identify themselves with for the lack of authentic identity claims unrelated to multibillion commercial enterprises.

I provided a clearcut definition. It is too bad modern people have lost slightest grasp on it to become passive consumers of the things they no longer create.
IMO, all or your responses on this topic are gobbledygook, based on some personal and tortured definition of culture that is not within the common meaning of the term, and, admittedly, my understanding of your definition of "culture."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

Consumption of manufactured goods and the enjoyment of a mass entertainment are as much as part of my culture, and likely yours, as if we were all still hunters and gatherers and made our clothing out of hides, whether you like it or not. Division of labor and the development of machine tools (the prerequisite for manufactured goods) are among the great achievements of humanity, and yet you somehow exclude them from human culture?

If I understand you, you believe that art and music created by others but enjoyed by us, especially if they were created in a different culture and a different time, are not part of our culture? Bizarre. No wonder you're confused and confusing. By your definition, the use of the "Overture of 1812" during many American fireworks shows is not part of our culture??? If "Stars and Stripes Forever" is used during a fireworks show, is that part of our culture? Attending a "Grateful Dead" concert is part of our culture (or perhaps not because it was created by someone else and involves "professional entertainers"), but not a Messiah sing-along (or is any sing-along part of our culture because we're participating in the sing-along)?

On another point, there is substantial interaction between Amish and some "Yankees." Just today, I encountered a group of Amish women shopping, and I've many times had discussions with Amish persons. Apart from the Old Order Amish aversion to technology, they aren't much different in their culture from that of my grandparents, who lived on a dairy farm in the days before electricity and autos. I'm old enough to remember those days, when my grandfather still plowed using horses, and there was certainly no television even once they had electricity for many years (reception was bad even when they did get a TV).

It was interesting to me how a very diverse group of shoppers paid no attention to the Amish in their customary dress, not even the children, and vice versa. I'm not certain what that means, but I noticed it. I also wondered, as I always do in the presence of the Amish, and thinking of my grandparents, how much we could benefit by emphasizing a simpler existence. Just that thought process engendered by the Amish presence in northeastern Ohio importantly suggests the influence of the Amish on Yankees.

When two cultures interact, especially in America, there always are consequences. I remember once Richard Rodriguez, reflecting on the pervasiveness of Mexican American food in the U.S., reminiscing about how his mother used to be embarrassed to serve enchiladas when he brought friends home for dinner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rodriguez

What place is it that you believe has such a superior culture to Ohio? I presume Tennessee. Why?

Candidly, your cultural logic smacks of a cultural bias typical of individuals seeking to elevate themselves above others, an impression reinforced by some of your comments. Instead you've created an illogical framework that somehow excludes much of the actual human experience of modern Americans. Rather than immersing ourselves in the grandness of the human experience across many cultures and our own, you advocate for some superior culture of your imagination. Candidly, it sounds a lot like ISIS.

BTW, when I was a kid, we played unorganized sports, especially football, hundreds of hours every year, and I still see kids playing on their own, more frequently soccer and even lacrosse, where I live. Unorganized basketball is very popular, often using driveway hoops, which are all over the place. Even Thanksgiving Day neighborhood touch football games are popular some places. Where the heck do you live? So, exactly what do you mean by "inmates?"

Last edited by WRnative; 08-01-2015 at 11:54 PM..
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:08 AM
 
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Given your aversion to organized sports, and your apparent exclusion of organized sports from "culture," I was wondering as I responded to your comments whether you considered the Spartan tradition of agoge as part of the Spartan culture?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoge

What about the Hitler Youth, or even the Boy and Girl Scouts (not to equate any of these social customs, groups, etc.)?

I'm simply trying to understand how and when "organized" activities become divorced from "culture" in your mind.
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