Thinking about leaving Ohio??? Get in line and fill this out (Warren: closing, wages)

[cwilloughby78]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

I only compared the two because someone else brought them up together. Regardless of a "best of list", Ohio has "real cities" period. This is something that Raleigh and most of NC/SC is lacking. Most people from the midwest and northest that move south find the south rather boring and lacking "real city" grit and charm. This is where Toledo is superior to Raleigh. Economically and socially, Raleigh is far better than Toledo. Then again, most suburban areas like Raleigh are doing better than Toledo. Toledo has an urban fabric that makes Raleigh (and even Charlotte to an extent) look like Mayberry. Economically, Raleigh/Charlotte makes Toledo look like Mayberry. Again, I can understand why an Ohioan would call Raleigh a "chithole". They were most likely talking about Raleigh's urban fabric (or lack there of).

I hate to be another person to confront you on this issue but I feel I must make my point. I would really like to know what "real city grit and charm" is? Because if it's just a bunch of industrial decay, empty old buildings with complimentary homeless and asbesto on the side, jails bursting at the seams, boarded up homes that spontaniously combust, drug dealers and prostitutes then Dayton Ohio and any other large city in Ohio is what you're looking for. But Dayton Ohio has a trump card like Toledo, the regions last large scale manufacturer GM is closing it's doors next month adding to the "grit". Oh and I can't forget the closing of the Dayton Regions only long-term mental institution thanks to state budget cuts! SO for the cherry on top of the perfect "grit" sundae add a helping of mentally ill homeless folks. Please all you folks seeking city grit move to Dayton Ohio, maybe it's help sell my home so I can move out of this chithole

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by cwilloughby78

I would really like to know what "real city grit and charm" is? Because if it's just a bunch of industrial decay, empty old buildings with complimentary homeless and asbesto on the side, jails bursting at the seams, boarded up homes that spontaniously combust, drug dealers and prostitutes then Dayton Ohio and any other large city in Ohio is what you're looking for.

I tried to stay out of this thread. I really did! But, I've got to stick up for urbancharlotte because he gets it. I'm coming to realize that one either does or doesn't see the charm in older cities, and if one doesn't, they aren't going to be convinced otherwise.

What city doesn't have homeless, drug dealers, and prostitutes? If that sort of thing bothers you, then you'll probably need to stay in the country or suburbs where ever you go. Where you see boarded up homes, empty old buildings, and industrial decay, I see character and opportunity. (opportunity to give those old buildings new uses) Where you see new and clean, I see blandness. When I had the choice to live in a neighborhood with lots of bungalows, american four-squares, and other houses built in the early 20th century, and any of the suburban neighborhoods surrounding Youngstown, I chose the older neighborhood even though it had a few vacant houses. I would do it again.

Just so you know, asbestos was used in building materials well into the 1980's. So, old buildings in old cities don't have a monopoly on that either.

[cwilloughby78]

Originally Posted by JR_C

I tried to stay out of this thread. I really did! But, I've got to stick up for urbancharlotte because he gets it. I'm coming to realize that one either does or doesn't see the charm in older cities, and if one doesn't, they aren't going to be convinced otherwise.

What city doesn't have homeless, drug dealers, and prostitutes? If that sort of thing bothers you, then you'll probably need to stay in the country or suburbs where ever you go. Where you see boarded up homes, empty old buildings, and industrial decay, I see character and opportunity. (opportunity to give those old buildings new uses) Where you see new and clean, I see blandness. When I had the choice to live in a neighborhood with lots of bungalows, american four-squares, and other houses built in the early 20th century, and any of the suburban neighborhoods surrounding Youngstown, I chose the older neighborhood even though it had a few vacant houses. I would do it again.

Just so you know, asbestos was used in building materials well into the 1980's. So, old buildings in old cities don't have a monopoly on that either.

One can see the charms of older cities and still disagree with what some view as "real city" grit. There are some wonderful parts of Dayton Ohio where they're reviving turn of the 20th century homes and it's a breathtaking area, we have an empty building in downtown Dayton called the Arcade that would blow you away, it's a amazing building that I hope the city can revive, but they've been trying for 20 years to do so with no success because the city just doesn't have the ability to attract the new bussinesses needed to fill it and pay for it's restoration. I see opportunity there but not success. I brought up abestos because that's a big problem with buildings that have sat vacant for the last 2 or more decades, I'm well aware of when it was banned from use, but that's a hugh! hugh! cost to restoring and renovating older buildings needed to keep or bring back that character and charm. We won't even go into inner city schools because I'm sure someone out there thinks 90+ year old schools for our children are Charming

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by cwilloughby78

One can see the charms of older cities and still disagree with what some view as "real city" grit. There are some wonderful parts of Dayton Ohio where they're reviving turn of the 20th century homes and it's a breathtaking area, we have an empty building in downtown Dayton called the Arcade that would blow you away, it's a amazing building that I hope the city can revive, but they've been trying for 20 years to do so with no success because the city just doesn't have the ability to attract the new bussinesses needed to fill it and pay for it's restoration. I see opportunity there but not success. I brought up abestos because that's a big problem with buildings that have sat vacant for the last 2 or more decades, I'm well aware of when it was banned from use, but that's a hugh! hugh! cost to restoring and renovating older buildings needed to keep or bring back that character and charm. We won't even go into inner city schools because I'm sure someone out there thinks 90+ year old schools for our children are Charming

It's funny you bring up Dayton. When I hauled freight out of Washington CH, I often went through Dayton on my way to places like Indy, Fort Wayne, and Findlay. As you leave Dayton's downtown northbound on I-75, there is a PJ on the left. Call me crazy, but I feel at home when I see PJ's like that one. It looks identical to the Southside Homes PJ in Charlotte I grew up in. Also, many of the drivers at that Walmart DC I worked out of live in Dayton. Dayton is only about 30 minutes away and I made over $1,200 a week in Washington CH. I made $1,500 a week hauling gasoline out of a Marathon refinery in Catlettsburg KY (just down the river from Ironton OH).

The traditional plant jobs are going away for good in Ohio (and the rest of America too). Jobs like trucking CAN NOT BE OUTSOURCED!!! Trucking is just one example of a stable career in Ohio. Moving away from Ohio is just a quick fix that sometimes doesn't work. I am thankful for all of the growth we have here in Charlotte, but I don't like the fact that this growth comes at the expense of more established urban states like Ohio. It seems to me that areas like Charlotte should figure out ways to grow without "robbing Peter".

[CortlandGirl79]

Trucking can't be outsourced, but i wouldn't put it past any company to bring in low wage mexican truck drivers.

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

The traditional plant jobs are going away for good in Ohio (and the rest of America too). Jobs like trucking CAN NOT BE OUTSOURCED!!! Trucking is just one example of a stable career in Ohio. Moving away from Ohio is just a quick fix that sometimes doesn't work. I am thankful for all of the growth we have here in Charlotte, but I don't like the fact that this growth comes at the expense of more established urban states like Ohio. It seems to me that areas like Charlotte should figure out ways to grow without "robbing Peter".

I don't think it's Charlotte's (or any growing city outside of Ohio for that matter) fault that people are relocating there from Ohio. If my wife had been able to land a stable position in Ohio, we probably never would have moved. So does that mean that it's Charlotte's responsibility to make sure that Ohio's economy gets better in the coming years so they don't keep taking their people? If Ohio had done a better job of not taxing companies to death, making the state more attractable to businesses and not counting on the status quo to get them through, the state probably wouldn't have lost so many people the last 2 decades. Bottom line, people go to where the jobs are, and the past 15 years or so, the main growth has been along the I-85 corridor in the southeast.

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

Trucking can't be outsourced, but i wouldn't put it past any company to bring in low wage mexican truck drivers.

At least they'd have to obtain a CDL first though, no matter how cheap they can get them, it isn't worth it to have a clueless truck driver who in turns causes your insurance rates to sky-rocket, not to mention repairs & maintenance and the equipment itself.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

Trucking can't be outsourced, but i wouldn't put it past any company to bring in low wage mexican truck drivers.

I have heard that on many trucker forums. From my personal experience, it is something that is mostly "fear" than a reality. I have three Mexican co-workers driving trucks at my job in Charlotte. They are hard working safe drivers who have earned a bigger pay check than me. Those guys make close to $80k per year hauling gasoline. I make about $70k. Again, they earned their higher pay. These guys WOULD NOT work for less than average American wage. Many Mexicans do, but not all. I used to live in a section of Charlotte that is nearly 80% Mexican (along South Blvd). Most Mexicans (I should say Latinos because only racist people refer to them all as "Mexicans") drive nicer and more expensive cars and trucks than the rest of us.

In Ohio, progress can be made at rebuilding the state's economy. Moving away from Ohio is not the answer. The only thing I find undesirable about Ohio is the weather. The coldest month in Charlotte has an average high in the low to mid 50's. You can even see a few 70 degree days in that month also. If Ohio was warmer, I would choose Ohio hands down over just about anywhere in the South. Keep in mind that I am a trucker and my wife is a nurse. We can get a job anywhere with no problems. Nursing is BOOMING in the Dayton area. When I was in Ohio, there was a school in Dayton offering a "free ride" through nursing school for qualified black male applicants. I can not remember the name of this school, but I think it was the technical college up there. At any rate, this is an example of Ohio making efforts to put "at risk" Ohioans to work while addressing a demographic shortage in nursing at the same time. I am a black male BTW. My wife is white FWIW.

[CortlandGirl79]

I'm talking about Mexicans from Mexico, not Latinos that live here.

[jstn]

Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC

I don't think it's Charlotte's (or any growing city outside of Ohio for that matter) fault that people are relocating there from Ohio. If my wife had been able to land a stable position in Ohio, we probably never would have moved. So does that mean that it's Charlotte's responsibility to make sure that Ohio's economy gets better in the coming years so they don't keep taking their people? If Ohio had done a better job of not taxing companies to death, making the state more attractable to businesses and not counting on the status quo to get them through, the state probably wouldn't have lost so many people the last 2 decades. Bottom line, people go to where the jobs are, and the past 15 years or so, the main growth has been along the I-85 corridor in the southeast.

True. I would also add that unions have played a very large role in the decline of Ohio as well. Ohio is now feeling the effects of the unions driving manufactoring and general labor salaries so high that the cost of doing business became unbearable. Thus closings, layoffs, relocations, etc..

It's kind of ironic (and sad) that what once made Ohio a hot-bed for job seekers, in the end also caused it's death.