Thinking about leaving Ohio??? Get in line and fill this out (Columbus: section 8, rent)

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

10-15 degrees is significantly warmer, especially in the summer. Combined with the humidity and it becomes unbearable. The last time I was in VA in the summer was one of the most miserable experiences with weather in my life, more than any cold I've experienced in Ohio. Ohio rarely has heat like that, and when it happens, it doesn't last all summer long. And the worst part is that Virginia is not even the worst place for it. If that's your thing, though... great.

The cost of living is based on a multitude of factors. The cost of living and wages have a strong correlation. Wages and cost of living tends to rise with each other, so you're not necessarily going to pay a greater % of your wages. NYC is very expensive, but the average wage is also much higher. Either way, you're not arguing against the point that Ohio is relatively inexpensive.

Ohio's unemployment rate in December was 6.8%, not 9%. Virginia's was 5.5%, but I imagine a lot of that has to do with US government jobs. DC area helped the state keep unemployment below 7.5% even during the heart of the recession. It wasn't necessarily because Viriginia is a great jobs state. Virginia is one of only 3 Southern states to have lower unemployment than Ohio, but Virginia also gained about 31,400 jobs December 2011-December 2012. In the same period, Ohio gained almost 3x more, at 90,700.

And you seem to be supporting what I said. People mostly move for economic reasons. Ohio's economy is improving, so regardless of weather, I think people will start moving back or at least not leaving as much.

Wages in NYC aren't all that great at all, especially for those in the service economy, retail, fast food, etc. People are just willing to do anything and everything to live in NYC because they feel it is larger than life. But once you leave Manhattan, NYC isn't that much different from any other city. To be fair parts of the outer boroughs aren't any different from Cleveland. Now if you can make it in finance, real estate, entertainment, journalism, etc. NYC is the best place to be but for regular folk it isn't all its cracked up to be. NYC also has a huge welfare state those that would normally be disqualified for stuff like Section 8, food stamps, etc. can still qualify there because the cost of living is that much higher.

Wages in this part of Virginia aren't that much better. Locals always state that the military is what is suppressing wages. Wages in Northern Virginia tend to be a lot higher. Of course that is nothing in comparison to DC.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

Well, the economy was never a factor in any of my moves. In fact, 90% of my customer base is in the Midwest so I am ~500 miles from most of my business. I chose to leave OH for better weather and improved quality of life IMO. All our family is in OH but this was best choice for us and in our case 'the grass was greener on the other side'. I felt bad for some of my friends that lived in NE OH and owned family businesses that are pinned down. Many were envious of our situation, basically we said we wanted to move to Sunbelt and decided our best choices for relocation were Raleigh or Charlotte. We wanted a transient, growing, up and coming area. We would never consider the move back and I find most people that migrate here feel the same way.

The grass is greener for some people. In some cases, Ohio has a slower pace, you don't have to drive for an hour and a half to get out of the city and you do not see the inequalities of wealth you see in places like DC, Boston, NY, or Northern Virginia. It isn't ran over with transplants, and you do not see the massive generic apartment complexes that spring up to give all of these people a place to live that you see in the South. I do miss the old architecture and stuff like Stan Hywett, etc. Nothing wrong with any of that. But some of us like a humid/Mediterranean climate. You get used to it. The winters are not so brutal, and your natural gas bill is not quite as high.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Care to cite?

It's ok, I got it for you.

Ohio's unemployment rate (December 2012): 6.7%
https://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...loyment%20rate

Virginia's unemployment rate (December 2012): 5.5%
https://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...loyment%20rate

Virginia's is more than 1% lower than Ohio's, true. However, 6.7% is a far cry from 9%. Let's be honest here.

That doesn't change the perception of Ohio though. Those who live there know this, but who is getting the word out about the progress?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by goofy328

That doesn't change the perception of Ohio though. Those who live there know this, but who is getting the word out about the progress?

I can't help the ignorance of the general populace. One assumes that those who can read could be swayed to believe basic facts, but I've been surprised before.

[goofy328]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I can't help the ignorance of the general populace. One assumes that those who can read could be swayed to believe basic facts, but I've been surprised before.

You guys are killing me. As many other places that Ohio has to compete with these days, particularly with the South, and the West, and the best I can get is that people should know if they read up on things.

Back in the day Ohio was a major thoroughfare on the Underground Railroad, it had the first Historically Black College, we had major industry here. People were leaving West Virginia, Alabama, etc. in droves. Anyone could walk off the street and get a job, even work their way up to being middle class and own their own house.

It isn't just the South. Places like DC, NY, and Chicago are looking interesting again, after decades of decline in those cities. That old environment that used to exist doesn't. You need to be educated, and people usually find some other chic place that seems more interesting on the surface.

I grew up in Akron. People were telling us back then what it would be like today back in the 90s. I went to school in Wilberforce and hung out in Dayton for 5, 7 years. Things changed for the worse in that short period of time, and this was long before the housing crash and the recession. NCR moved their corporate headquarters to the South. I dealt with a hostile working environment, and the blatant racism of Southern Ohio for years, even went six months without working, and no unemployment check either. I put up with a lot of s* in Ohio, not out of loyalty, not because I wanted to be there, but I had no other choice as I was stuck. All I wanted was a simple job, not a lot of money, just something I could work my way up the ladder but without a degree and not being someone that fit into corporate environments easily I always got the interview but never got that call back.

Southwestern Virginia wasn't much better. In some ways it was even worse than Ohio. But I used a different address and got a job in Southeastern Virginia over the phone, stayed with the person that lived at that address once I got there and made it work. There were times I lived in hotels, or extended stay. Virginia is very expensive in comparison to Ohio. You might have 3 or 4 people in a 2 bedroom apartment. But a lot of people just deal with it and move on.

Wages aren't any higher in the Mid-Atlantic, the South, or the East Coast. A lot of times they are lower. But you don't have the crime here; what people complain about around here is laughable compared to what I dealt with in Dayton. The weather is nicer, but then again, the weather in NYC isn't that bad either. People are friendly and approachable. I love Ohio, and there will always be people that leave for overcrowded places like NYC that are willing to share rent with 5 other people and live in a small studio but the energy that is on the Coasts isn't there in Ohio for everyone. You don't have to go downtown or out to the suburbs. You don't have situations where the entire block is empty like you do in the Midwest. Most places that were like that have been razed over and rebuilt.

I really like Cleveland, especially downtown. I think it is a more interesting city than Columbus. But I can't tell anyone about it; and this isn't people here, it is my family there in Akron. They look at me like "what the f* are you talking about". It isn't as though they don't go up there, or drive through there. A lot of them go up there to hang out. So when people that actually live there are putting the place down and want to leave it becomes sort of difficult. People aren't evangelizing Ohio; they shout Atlanta and Georgia from the rooftops and places like NY and LA own the media so go figure and even DC has its own salesman but outside of these forums no one is really talking about Ohio in that way.

[ZnGuy]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

There are exceptions to everything, but the point stands the economics are the #1 reason for most moves.

And it's fine you are happier elsewhere, that's great. But it always seems to come with the implication that everyone you left behind is envious and miserable, as if no one is happy or content living in Ohio. Or that the only reason people stay is because they are "pinned down", like Ohio is a prison without bars. There are plenty of people who love Ohio, I know I did/do. I imagine most of the people on this forum, for example, are here because they like the state and enjoy discussions about it and their respective cities within. There is far too much projection when it comes to the attitudes of people who have left.

Read what I said, did I say everyone or some people?? Man you are defensive, especially for someone that doesn't live in Ohio, get over it. The fact of matter things have worked out great for us and I am expressing my experience, nothing more.

[bjimmy24]

We get accused of boosterism for saying anything good about Ohio.

But trust me, I spread the word in my offline life as well. I think more and more people actually do view the state more positively than they used to. Everybody I've shown around Cleveland has been really pleasantly surprised. So yes, they had low expectations, but they have totally been proven wrong. Things don't change overnight, but I think the state is going in the right direction and the rest of the people will follow eventually.

But there will always be haters.

[Tenzo]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

There are exceptions to everything, but the point stands the economics are the #1 reason for most moves.

The empiracal data seems to indicate otherwise despite your desire.

[bam989863]

My wife and I relocated Houston, Texas in 2008 we lived in a nice loft downtown our first couple of years. I met numerous people from all across the country who had relocated to Houston and everyone we met was there for work. These became some of my best friends and there are very few of them who wouldn't move back to their home state if they could get a similar job earning similar pay.

My wife and I were lucky and she was offered a job in Columbus with a raise and we jumped at the chance to move back to Columbus, Ohio. I am not going to bad mouth Houston because we enjoyed our time there but there are very few qualities about Houston that I would rank over Columbus. We absolutely love Columbus for what it is. It is a city on the move with a growing economy and plenty of activities, parks, and attractions to keep a family busy year round.

As for the weather, this is quite simply a weird argument to me. There are very few cities in the world with ideal weather all the time. The thought of moving somewhere simply for weather purposes is just not logical to me. I cannot count the number of people who comment to me "I bet you miss the weather in Houston". To which I reply have you ever been to Houston. Houston's winters are relatively nice and comfortable. Houston's summers are excessively hot and humid and filled with insects that like to buffet on human flesh. Neither the nice winters or miserable summers were enough to sway me to move to or away from Houston.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Tenzo

The empiracal data seems to indicate otherwise despite your desire.

I don't know what the "empiracal" data shows (or what "empiracal" data is, for that matter), but the empirical data clearly shows that most non-retirement, non-educational, and non-boomeranger related moves of 100 miles or more occur for economic reasons.