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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for in the 2016 general election?
Hillary Clinton 40 43.48%
Donald Trump 34 36.96%
Gary Johnson 9 9.78%
Jill Stein 3 3.26%
Other 6 6.52%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-14-2016, 03:35 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,328,655 times
Reputation: 7213

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
Don't worry, America will be great again.
Not our physical environment, where forests are dying at an accelerated clip and glaciers, sea grasses and coral reefs are disappearing.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...es/rosner-text

Trump, who even proposed abolishing the Environmental Protection Agency, will accelerate the already sorry environmental decline now underway.

<<But there is much more to the EPA than the protection of the climate. And [Myron] Ebell [Trump's appointee to oversee the transition of the EPA to the Trump administration] also runs a pro-chemical industry front group from the website saferchemicalpolicy.org, where you can read about the “life-enhancing value of chemicals” and the absurd idea that man-made toxic chemicals couldn’t possibly cause cancer because the average human lifespan has increased since 1950.>>

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/14/...ld-trumps-epa/

America's oncology industry will love President Trump.

Most of the rest of the world cringes while the all-knowing Trump and his Trumpie groupies declare that man-made climate change is a hoax and celebrate Trump's plans to accelerate fossil fuel burning.

<<"Until January 20 when this administration is over, we intend to do everything possible to meet our responsibility to future generations to be able to address this threat to life itself on the planet [emphasis added]."

U.S. to push ahead on climate pact before Trump takes over: Kerry | Reuters

Melting Permafrost Is Turbocharging Climate Change

It's already clear that Ohio Trumpies don't care about toxic algal blooms in Lake Erie, the Ohio River or elsewhere in Ohio, or they would have never championed the candidate who repeatedly stated he would abolish or gut the one agency that would be able to remedy this malady, if allowed to do so by the politicians. And will a Trump EPA, controlled by fossil fuel interests, even consider halting the injection of highly radioactive fracking waste water under Ohio potable water aquifers?

Please tell me that you and the other Ohio Trumpies will campaign against spending futile tens of billions of dollars fortifying and repairing coasts to protect developers like Trump while Ohio is starved of federal largesse.

Disgusting.

Last edited by WRnative; 11-14-2016 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:21 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 17,975,108 times
Reputation: 7878
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
Don't worry, America will be great again.
Eh, I've never been all that convinced it ever was. It just believed in its own hype. Genocide, slavery, segregation, Japanese internment camps, widespread discrimination against immigrants and gays, where women are still paid less and receive far fewer benefits than in even some 3rd world nations, a poor education system, astronomical healthcare costs, a growing class divide, widespread corruption in the political and economic systems... Donald Trump, of all people, is the last person on earth that will solve anything. Don't take my word for it, though. All you have to do is wait and see. As for me, I'm not so worried about me personally. As far as I'm concerned, it's not my country anymore and I'm not there to directly deal with the consequences. My family and friends, however...
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Old 11-14-2016, 11:10 PM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,915,946 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Eh, I've never been all that convinced it ever was. It just believed in its own hype. Genocide, slavery, segregation, Japanese internment camps, widespread discrimination against immigrants and gays, where women are still paid less and receive far fewer benefits than in even some 3rd world nations, a poor education system, astronomical healthcare costs, a growing class divide, widespread corruption in the political and economic systems... Donald Trump, of all people, is the last person on earth that will solve anything. Don't take my word for it, though. All you have to do is wait and see. As for me, I'm not so worried about me personally. As far as I'm concerned, it's not my country anymore and I'm not there to directly deal with the consequences. My family and friends, however...
Well if the U.S. is so awful and corrupt and its not your country anymore, let's hope you enjoy Mexico, your major step-up new country.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:40 AM
 
Location: livin' the good life on America's favorite island
2,221 posts, read 4,374,020 times
Reputation: 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Not our physical environment, where forests are dying at an accelerated clip and glaciers, sea grasses and coral reefs are disappearing.

Pine Beetle Epidemic - National Geographic Magazine

Trump, who even proposed abolishing the Environmental Protection Agency, will accelerate the already sorry environmental decline now underway.

<<But there is much more to the EPA than the protection of the climate. And [Myron] Ebell [Trump's appointee to oversee the transition of the EPA to the Trump administration] also runs a pro-chemical industry front group from the website saferchemicalpolicy.org, where you can read about the “life-enhancing value of chemicals” and the absurd idea that man-made toxic chemicals couldn’t possibly cause cancer because the average human lifespan has increased since 1950.>>

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/14/...ld-trumps-epa/

America's oncology industry will love President Trump.

Most of the rest of the world cringes while the all-knowing Trump and his Trumpie groupies declare that man-made climate change is a hoax and celebrate Trump's plans to accelerate fossil fuel burning.

<<"Until January 20 when this administration is over, we intend to do everything possible to meet our responsibility to future generations to be able to address this threat to life itself on the planet [emphasis added]."

U.S. to push ahead on climate pact before Trump takes over: Kerry | Reuters

Melting Permafrost Is Turbocharging Climate Change

It's already clear that Ohio Trumpies don't care about toxic algal blooms in Lake Erie, the Ohio River or elsewhere in Ohio, or they would have never championed the candidate who repeatedly stated he would abolish or gut the one agency that would be able to remedy this malady, if allowed to do so by the politicians. And will a Trump EPA, controlled by fossil fuel interests, even consider halting the injection of highly radioactive fracking waste water under Ohio potable water aquifers?

Please tell me that you and the other Ohio Trumpies will campaign against spending futile tens of billions of dollars fortifying and repairing coasts to protect developers like Trump while Ohio is starved of federal largesse.

Disgusting.

I guess the battle will begin soon installing Trumps policies.
George Soros Prepares For WAR | The Federalist Papers
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:05 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,328,655 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
I guess the battle will begin soon installing Trumps policies.
George Soros Prepares For WAR | The Federalist Papers
Interesting article.

This likely will be the first Trump proposal to bite the dust, as I don't see a majority of the career politicians in Congress willing to participate in self-immolation, perhaps unless existing members are given a lifetime exemption from term limits, an exemption which should not pass a Constitutional review.

<<A Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress>>

Notably missing from the Trump proposals, if the interest is improving democracy -- any effort to eliminate the gerrymandering of legislative districts, a grotesque feature of American democracy which has functioned to polarize our legislative bodies and result in partisan deadlock or power-grabbing.

The fossil fuel-loving Koch brothers alone will overwhelm the efforts of the George Soros group, likely dooming the global environment in the process.
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:53 AM
 
16,345 posts, read 17,975,108 times
Reputation: 7878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Well if the U.S. is so awful and corrupt and its not your country anymore, let's hope you enjoy Mexico, your major step-up new country.
Why is it that some people respond to criticism of the US by telling them to leave or mocking any other country? It reeks of insecurity.

Look, I did not argue that Mexico doesn't have problems. There is no such thing as a perfect country. My point was that Americans like to believe the US is the only nation out there worth anything. It isn't. And it has plenty of significant problems that people gloss over in their flag-waving, empty patriotism. I'm genuinely sad for America, and it's painful to see the place I was born embrace authoritarian nationalism for a bombastic one-liner. It has, though, and therefore I have to prioritize what is important to me just like everyone else. Mexico has a lot of issues, no doubt, but it doesn't have America's obsession with mixing religion and politics, and therefore even as it might move forward more slowly than some other places, it still inevitably moves forward. There is little chance of it ever supporting a demagogue or a religious extremist for president or VP (nor its Congress, for that matter), at least in the present social and political climate. That's a pretty important distinction now. Throw in the fact that the weather is perfect, the cost of living is very low, health care is cheap, the food is excellent and the culture is vibrant, I'm pretty happy here. That where I live is socially progressive makes it even better. Oh, and there is no awful gun culture in the general public. It's not going to be everyone's choice, but it's definitely mine.
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Old 11-16-2016, 09:38 AM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,915,946 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Why is it that some people respond to criticism of the US by telling them to leave or mocking any other country? It reeks of insecurity.

Look, I did not argue that Mexico doesn't have problems. There is no such thing as a perfect country. My point was that Americans like to believe the US is the only nation out there worth anything. It isn't. And it has plenty of significant problems that people gloss over in their flag-waving, empty patriotism. I'm genuinely sad for America, and it's painful to see the place I was born embrace authoritarian nationalism for a bombastic one-liner. It has, though, and therefore I have to prioritize what is important to me just like everyone else. Mexico has a lot of issues, no doubt, but it doesn't have America's obsession with mixing religion and politics, and therefore even as it might move forward more slowly than some other places, it still inevitably moves forward. There is little chance of it ever supporting a demagogue or a religious extremist for president or VP (nor its Congress, for that matter), at least in the present social and political climate. That's a pretty important distinction now. Throw in the fact that the weather is perfect, the cost of living is very low, health care is cheap, the food is excellent and the culture is vibrant, I'm pretty happy here. That where I live is socially progressive makes it even better. Oh, and there is no awful gun culture in the general public. It's not going to be everyone's choice, but it's definitely mine.
Leaving the U.S. for, in your case, Mexico, and then chiming in about how the U.S. is no longer your country and opining and complaining about its leadership and problems etc. followed by a discourse on how great and stable Mexico is reeks of major insecurity.

How can Mexico not be moving forward? Could it go anymore backwards? You portray Mexico as having a stable political past.

Why have so many millions crossed the border into the U.S., legally and illegally.

So, someone can mock the U.S. from another country and when comments are made about this other country, it's insecurity?

You left the U.S. by choice and now its not your country; bye....but the flood of people out of your new country certainly indicates that many are not happy with the present social and political climate, the weather, low COL, cheap health care, excellent food and vibrant culture in socially progressive communities. It's called survival and these same people want to get into the U.S. despite all its negatives.

Sounds like someone doesn't know how the other half lives and is disconnected from the marginalized folks. Oh, wait, that's what happened on November 8 in the U.S. The forgotten, disconnected and marginalized voted...and won. Can't happen in progressive, stable Mexico though, that's for sure.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:24 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 17,975,108 times
Reputation: 7878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Leaving the U.S. for, in your case, Mexico, and then chiming in about how the U.S. is no longer your country and opining and complaining about its leadership and problems etc. followed by a discourse on how great and stable Mexico is reeks of major insecurity.

How can Mexico not be moving forward? Could it go anymore backwards? You portray Mexico as having a stable political past.

Why have so many millions crossed the border into the U.S., legally and illegally.

So, someone can mock the U.S. from another country and when comments are made about this other country, it's insecurity?

You left the U.S. by choice and now its not your country; bye....but the flood of people out of your new country certainly indicates that many are not happy with the present social and political climate, the weather, low COL, cheap health care, excellent food and vibrant culture in socially progressive communities. It's called survival and these same people want to get into the U.S. despite all its negatives.

Sounds like someone doesn't know how the other half lives and is disconnected from the marginalized folks. Oh, wait, that's what happened on November 8 in the U.S. The forgotten, disconnected and marginalized voted...and won. Can't happen in progressive, stable Mexico though, that's for sure.
Again, where did I say Mexico was stable or remarkably great? I only said it has the things that I want that the US no longer seems to value. I'll continue to say it- no country is perfect. Each has different flaws and positives. Sadly, the US has chosen madness over reason and, as such, doesn't feel like my home anymore. I was never particularly patriotic to begin with, but I had respect for it. Now...


I wasn't talking about moving forward politically, but rather on social progress. Because it doesn't have a strong extremist element in the general population, particularly religiously, like the US does, it is less prone to electing leadership that will rule based on such things, so once social progress goes forward, there is little to no organized effort to regress. Maybe that won't always be true, but it's true now. That is in no way saying that the country doesn't have significant leadership issues otherwise, but again, nowhere is perfect.


You seem to be unaware that Mexico is very poor, and that a lot of people have gone to the US NOT because they were necessarily in love with the US, but to improve their economic standing. Economics is the primary motivation of the vast majority of all types of moves, even from one state to another. Ohio has negative domestic migration not because it's necessarily an awful place to live, but because some states and regions provided greater opportunities for some people. Everyone has to weigh the pros and cons of any major life decision. And frankly, a Trump voter is the very last person that has any standing on the choices that immigrants have to make. Your stunning lack of compassion and empathy and embrace of white nationalism (even under the guise of economic issues) is pretty much the status quo given America's history with minorities.


Ironically, all those supposedly forgotten and marginalized white people (LOL...) stand to do no better or even worse under a Trump presidency. It will all be for nothing. The swamp isn't getting drained. It's just being filled with even more dangerous snakes.
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:44 PM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,915,946 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Again, where did I say Mexico was stable or remarkably great? I only said it has the things that I want that the US no longer seems to value. I'll continue to say it- no country is perfect. Each has different flaws and positives. Sadly, the US has chosen madness over reason and, as such, doesn't feel like my home anymore. I was never particularly patriotic to begin with, but I had respect for it. Now...


I wasn't talking about moving forward politically, but rather on social progress. Because it doesn't have a strong extremist element in the general population, particularly religiously, like the US does, it is less prone to electing leadership that will rule based on such things, so once social progress goes forward, there is little to no organized effort to regress. Maybe that won't always be true, but it's true now. That is in no way saying that the country doesn't have significant leadership issues otherwise, but again, nowhere is perfect.


You seem to be unaware that Mexico is very poor, and that a lot of people have gone to the US NOT because they were necessarily in love with the US, but to improve their economic standing. Economics is the primary motivation of the vast majority of all types of moves, even from one state to another. Ohio has negative domestic migration not because it's necessarily an awful place to live, but because some states and regions provided greater opportunities for some people. Everyone has to weigh the pros and cons of any major life decision. And frankly, a Trump voter is the very last person that has any standing on the choices that immigrants have to make. Your stunning lack of compassion and empathy and embrace of white nationalism (even under the guise of economic issues) is pretty much the status quo given America's history with minorities.


Ironically, all those supposedly forgotten and marginalized white people (LOL...) stand to do no better or even worse under a Trump presidency. It will all be for nothing. The swamp isn't getting drained. It's just being filled with even more dangerous snakes.
I'm quite aware that over 50% of Mexico's population lives in poverty. My parents and many other family members were and are immigrants. They are legal; those that were in the U.S. illegally were forced to leave.

The illegals are here mostly for the $$, not to be American. So they need to go, as soon as possible. No matter where they are from; sorry to burst your liberal bubble that this is all based on ''racism''. Go away..that's right you already have.

Good luck in your new progressive country (with its 50%+ poverty rate). You have your own benefits list from living in country with major poverty issues...nice.

Last edited by Kamms; 11-18-2016 at 08:58 PM..
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:46 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,359,568 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Again, where did I say Mexico was stable or remarkably great? I only said it has the things that I want that the US no longer seems to value. I'll continue to say it- no country is perfect. Each has different flaws and positives. Sadly, the US has chosen madness over reason and, as such, doesn't feel like my home anymore. I was never particularly patriotic to begin with, but I had respect for it. Now...


I wasn't talking about moving forward politically, but rather on social progress. Because it doesn't have a strong extremist element in the general population, particularly religiously, like the US does, it is less prone to electing leadership that will rule based on such things, so once social progress goes forward, there is little to no organized effort to regress. Maybe that won't always be true, but it's true now. That is in no way saying that the country doesn't have significant leadership issues otherwise, but again, nowhere is perfect.


You seem to be unaware that Mexico is very poor, and that a lot of people have gone to the US NOT because they were necessarily in love with the US, but to improve their economic standing. Economics is the primary motivation of the vast majority of all types of moves, even from one state to another. Ohio has negative domestic migration not because it's necessarily an awful place to live, but because some states and regions provided greater opportunities for some people. Everyone has to weigh the pros and cons of any major life decision. And frankly, a Trump voter is the very last person that has any standing on the choices that immigrants have to make. Your stunning lack of compassion and empathy and embrace of white nationalism (even under the guise of economic issues) is pretty much the status quo given America's history with minorities.


Ironically, all those supposedly forgotten and marginalized white people (LOL...) stand to do no better or even worse under a Trump presidency. It will all be for nothing. The swamp isn't getting drained. It's just being filled with even more dangerous snakes.
Of course this is just another person we can't accept a defeat in the election. Everything above you said is just your opinion and screaming the sky is falling before he even takes office. You mention the the country has chosen Madness over reason. I really disagree. The madness is transgenders using any bathroom they feel like with little kids in it. The madness is not calling this a Christian country when it's overwhelmingly Christian and was founded on Christianity. Not that I'm really a devout Christian anyway. The madness is this political correctness crap. Etcetera etcetera etcetera the reason Trump's in office is because the country was far far to the left and people didn't like that. Not to mention Obama's last 4 years has divided this country more than it has been in 40 years with things like black lives matter bull****
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