Please rank Ohio cities (Columbus, Cleveland: 2009, unemployment, move to)

[jam40jeff]

I personally would rather have 2 months of winter, than two months of scorching, humid Southern heat. Christmas just isn't the same when it's 60 degrees outside. That being sad, I do wish that winter ended about a month sooner. I think it just makes spring all the sweeter, though (and makes a spring vacation down South all the more fun). By the end of summer, I'm pretty much ready for a change in seasons. I can't imagine living in San Diego, I would think the weather would be too boring.

[Hey_Hey]

I realize that everyone has their own opinions, but after living in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Ohio, I can say, without a doubt, that weather is a driving force keeping people from locating in Ohio. I could probably count 10 people who would refuse to move to NE or NW Ohio from TN or KY for every one person in NE or NW Ohio that refuses to move south because of the heat. I really believe that this is one of the major reasons why Cleveland and Toledo are declining economically. Columbus and Cincy are fairly close to Toledo and Cleveland, but the weather is surprisingly better.

[Ohioan58]

How do you explain Minneapolis? Healthy, vibrant economy, and prospering. And freaking brutal weather for half the year.

Not disagreeing with the assessment of weather patterns at all. I just think that the rust belt cities that are declining are declining *because* they're in the rust belt and they are burdened with old economies and lots of public tax burdens. Sunbelt cities prosper because their economies are newer. I think it's just that simple...

[psulions2007]

1 Columbus
2 Cleveland
3 Cincinnati
4 Sandusky
5 Toledo
6 Akron
7 Dayton
8 Athens
9 Canton
10 Andover
...All the Rest...
Youngstown

(P.S...Yeah, I know I picked different cities...oh well.)

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

How do you explain Minneapolis? Healthy, vibrant economy, and prospering. And freaking brutal weather for half the year.

Not disagreeing with the assessment of weather patterns at all. I just think that the rust belt cities that are declining are declining *because* they're in the rust belt and they are burdened with old economies and lots of public tax burdens. Sunbelt cities prosper because their economies are newer. I think it's just that simple...

You make a good point discussing Minneapolis/St. Paul...I will say all things being equal though, the majority of people are going to choose nice weather i.e. the south. I wouldn't say sunbelt cities necessarily have 'newer' economies, a lot of 'old' $$ still plays a major part in some of the region's cities. However, most cities have chosen to evolve faster into today's economy than many of the rust belt cities who have refused to let go of the industrial mindset that has dominated them for so many years. Toledo is a sad example as it has basically become South Detroit due to it's reliance & focus on the auto industry. Honestly, having lived in Columbia for 2 years now - we originally moved so my wife could teach as I found a similar type job in my field here - if you told us that we could go back to the Canton area for the same jobs or even slightly better ones, I doubt we would b/c we have enjoyed living here that much. The only thing that could ever take us back is our families, and even that we've learned to deal with and realize we can travel back to see them, and we're working & hoping to convince them to move this way as time moves along! We've already seen a few friends follow us/move right before us into the Carolinas from the area.

[Hey_Hey]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

How do you explain Minneapolis? Healthy, vibrant economy, and prospering. And freaking brutal weather for half the year.

Not disagreeing with the assessment of weather patterns at all. I just think that the rust belt cities that are declining are declining *because* they're in the rust belt and they are burdened with old economies and lots of public tax burdens. Sunbelt cities prosper because their economies are newer. I think it's just that simple...

I don't think economic growth or decline is ever because of a single factor. Minneapolis has a lot going for it in terms of culture and economy that will lead to population growth despite the bad weather. However, if you were able to magically move Minneapolis/St Paul in the middle of North Carolina, or another state with great weather, it would be growing even faster. Unfortunately for Toledo and Cleveland, the weather just compounds the economic woes. If Toledo were on the coast of Florida, the lack of economic growth might still be the case, but people would be more willing to "stick it out" because of the great weather.

[Beavercreek33]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

I realize that everyone has their own opinions, but after living in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Ohio, I can say, without a doubt, that weather is a driving force keeping people from locating in Ohio. I could probably count 10 people who would refuse to move to NE or NW Ohio from TN or KY for every one person in NE or NW Ohio that refuses to move south because of the heat. I really believe that this is one of the major reasons why Cleveland and Toledo are declining economically. Columbus and Cincy are fairly close to Toledo and Cleveland, but the weather is surprisingly better.

Columbus is on a different level than Cincinnati and Cleveland.

Columbus is far more progressive than anything TN and KY have to offer as well. Just look at the population growth of the the different cities. And Louisville and Nashville cheat in a way, they are linked with their counties as well. Say Columbus were to do that... Columbus would have over 1 million.

And before you start ranting off your opinions as if they were facts, realize that Cleveland is a huge economic force that is a big player in national and world events economically. I can name at least 15 people that have moved here to SW Ohio Cincinnati/Dayton from Kentucky and Tennessee. People have different likings to different places. If you don't like Ohio, thats fine. But there are plenty of people out there that do, and there are also plenty of people that hate KY and TN.

[Beavercreek33]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

I don't think economic growth or decline is ever because of a single factor. Minneapolis has a lot going for it in terms of culture and economy that will lead to population growth despite the bad weather. However, if you were able to magically move Minneapolis/St Paul in the middle of North Carolina, or another state with great weather, it would be growing even faster. Unfortunately for Toledo and Cleveland, the weather just compounds the economic woes. If Toledo were on the coast of Florida, the lack of economic growth might still be the case, but people would be more willing to "stick it out" because of the great weather.

Yes, because Florida's weather hides all of its many problems. Florida has one of the worst economies in the nation right now. They had a boom/bust period.

And you didn't say it exactly, but Cleveland has just as much culture as MNP if not even more. Just because Cleveland lost its big industries of the early and mid 20th century, doesn't mean it hasn't diversified its economy to meet these challenges. I don't know, the world renowed Cleveland Clinic rings a bell. Maybe Cleveland's bustling medical based economy. Uptown Cleveland has construction cranes everywhere.

[Hey_Hey]

When I said Columbus and Cincinnati were close to Toledo and Cleveland, I was referring to geography. For close to Toledo and Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati's weather is remarkably better. I wasn't speaking of anything other than weather being one of the major factors people use when determining where to live. Despite what you apparently think, I wasn't trying to pass judgement on Cleveland or Toledo or Ohio in general. I was just saying that weather plays a role in the population and economic fortunes of a city/region.

For Ohio, that means that the state has to work incredibly hard on making their cultural, economic, quality of life, and educational offerings (among others) stronger than other states because it comes into the competition with an inherent negative.

Originally Posted by Beavercreek33

Columbus is on a different level than Cincinnati and Cleveland.

Columbus is far more progressive than anything TN and KY have to offer as well. Just look at the population growth of the the different cities. And Louisville and Nashville cheat in a way, they are linked with their counties as well. Say Columbus were to do that... Columbus would have over 1 million.

I never intended to compare Columbus with any other city in TN or KY. However, since you bring it up I guess I should discuss it. Columbus combining with the county wouldn't alter the percentage growth of the MSA or CSA in any way. Nashville and Louisville do have combined city-county governments, but that increased "city" population doesn't really say anything about how the regions are doing in terms of population change. Louisville and Columbus are fairly close to each other in terms of MSA growth over the last decade, while Nashville is far ahead of both. Being more progressive does not inherently lead to more population growth.

Originally Posted by Beavercreek33

And before you start ranting off your opinions as if they were facts, realize that Cleveland is a huge economic force that is a big player in national and world events economically.

The same could be said for Detroit (even moreso than Cleveland), but everyone would also agree that Detroit's importance in the world's economy is diminishing. Cleveland still plays the largest role in the economy when compared to other cities in Ohio, but the lead that it once held on other cities in the state is smaller now than any time in the last century. It has also slipped behind several other cities in the US in the last couple decades in terms of relevance to the national and international economy.

Originally Posted by Beavercreek33

I can name at least 15 people that have moved here to SW Ohio Cincinnati/Dayton from Kentucky and Tennessee. People have different likings to different places. If you don't like Ohio, thats fine. But there are plenty of people out there that do, and there are also plenty of people that hate KY and TN.

I don't dispute the fact that people use all sorts of criteria to determine where they will reside, but the general trends show that the South and West are growing at a faster rate than Ohio. The population as a whole is choosing to live elsewhere. This is evidenced by the projections showing Ohio losing at least one Congressional district after the 2010 census. It's my contention that weather plays a significant role in those population changes and economic growth. Just think of the economic impact that snowbirds have every winter through decreased economic activity in cold climates and increased economic activity in warmer climates.

Originally Posted by Beavercreek33

Yes, because Florida's weather hides all of its many problems. Florida has one of the worst economies in the nation right now. They had a boom/bust period.

Again, weather isn't the only factor that people use to determine where to live and spend their money. However, no one would argue that Florida's population growth, economic output, and rising relative importance aren't due, in part, to the state's weather. All areas will go through times of economic constriction during a national recession, but Florida will still outpace Ohio and most other states in terms of population growth.

[jam40jeff]

I think what you fail to realize Hey_Hey is thatl, while some may agree with your definition of "nice weather", not all do. My idea of nice weather is four different seasons. I love summer, of course, but I also love the cool fall evening with the colorful leaves. I love the snow around Christmas. I do wish winter was a month or two shorter, but it makes spring one of the most exciting times of year when it comes, and you really can't beat the weather we've been having in Cleveland the last few weeks. Low 70s, sunny, and a breeze is absolutely perfect for getting outside and being active and not soaking your shirt full of sweat in 5 minutes. To me, our weather is much better than dealing with hurricanes, thunderstorms that come out of nowhere almost every summer afternoon, and sweltering heat and humidity for 6 months a year. Some people don't freak out at the first sight of snow. If it snowed 9 months a year, that'd be a different story, but I actually love a good snow storm a few times each winter.