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So let's flesh this out a bit. How many Muslims do you think are truly extremist to the point that they would engage in terrorism? Given that there are about 1.7 billion of them, even just 1% would be a huge number- greater than the entirety of the US military forces. At even 1%, you'd be having daily, constant, large-scale attacks in just about every nation. It would basically be a global war rather than what we're seeing now. I've seen estimates that suggest that real terrorist numbers are likely 100,000 or less, which would represent about 0.0059% of the total Muslim population. Even if it was that 1%, which it logically cannot be, you'd still be holding the 99% accountable for that minority. With any other group, if you blamed every 99 people for the actions of a single person, you'd be called crazy and it would be right called completely unjust. Yet it's very likely FAR less than 1%, so it's even worse. This makes sense to you, but yet you make no demands to hold the majority of other groups accountable for the actions of the minority in any other cases. Why not? I brought up several examples (Catholics for pedophile priests, for example) that were totally ignored. Why wouldn't it be good policy, using the exact same reasoning you're using here, to hold the majority of all other demographics accountable for the crimes of the minority? If you're white, explain to me why you shouldn't be held accountable for the KKK or white nationalist groups?
You posted the absolute lowest number I could find.
There are numbers as high as 25% for jihad sympathy throughout Islam. The most agreed-upon percent of Muslims who are extremists stand around 4- 7% of their population of 1 .7 billion. That's 68 - 119 million. Wasn't there just another Islamist terror attak in Iran yesterday.? Islamic extremists kill each over ideology differences let alone all of us non-believers.
IMO you're 100,000 number of Islam terrorist is very low and my guess would be there are that many in The no-go zones of the Paris suburbs. not to mention the millions of jihad supporters and sympathisers in the Middle East killing each other and inocent "infidels" daily over ideology.
I think in the times we live in it's best to be more prudent with the nation security and a travel ban against anyone who is currently creating worldwide problems and waging war on America should be focused on And profiled. What's the alternative? Continue the course we are on? Pretend what's happening in Europe could never happen here? Hold hands and sing *** by ya?
Btw- don't you think if you use your 100,000 number of Islamic extreemists , that The other 1.690 billion "peaceful" muslims could easily eradicate them and live in a peaceful Middle East? Probably no need to have refugees fleeing their countries either Huh?
if you're white, explain to me why you shouldn't be held accountable for the KKK or white nationalist groups?
Because subscribing to a certain ideology is not the same as being born with a certain skin color. I have a feeling that there is a lot of anti-white racism behind all of this.
Because subscribing to a certain ideology is not the same as being born with a certain skin color. I have a feeling that there is a lot of anti-white racism behind all of this.
So you mean simply sharing a general characteristic does not make everyone the same? Glad you are able to recognize that. So you are no doubt going to stop your maligning of all Muslims based on the ideological actions of the minority?
I'm guessing not, because we live in a world of hypocrisy.
You posted the absolute lowest number I could find.
There are numbers as high as 25% for jihad sympathy throughout Islam. The most agreed-upon percent of Muslims who are extremists stand around 4- 7% of their population of 1 .7 billion. That's 68 - 119 million. Wasn't there just another Islamist terror attak in Iran yesterday.? Islamic extremists kill each over ideology differences let alone all of us non-believers.
IMO you're 100,000 number of Islam terrorist is very low and my guess would be there are that many in The no-go zones of the Paris suburbs. not to mention the millions of jihad supporters and sympathisers in the Middle East killing each other and inocent "infidels" daily over ideology.
I think in the times we live in it's best to be more prudent with the nation security and a travel ban against anyone who is currently creating worldwide problems and waging war on America should be focused on And profiled. What's the alternative? Continue the course we are on? Pretend what's happening in Europe could never happen here? Hold hands and sing *** by ya?
Btw- don't you think if you use your 100,000 number of Islamic extreemists , that The other 1.690 billion "peaceful" muslims could easily eradicate them and live in a peaceful Middle East? Probably no need to have refugees fleeing their countries either Huh?
Something tells me your sources are definitely biased, just like the others you've given.
You've also changed the claim. I thought we were talking about people who were actually engaging in terrorism. You want to include all people who may feel "sympathy" but not actually doing anything, though that number could be wildly changeable depending on how one defines being sympathetic to that end. Even with your numbers, that would mean 93% of Muslims neither engage in nor are sympathetic to terrorists. The rest are what vetting is for.
The "no-go" zones were actually made up. They don't exist. Logically, even if the claim hadn't been a total lie, it would make literally no sense for a nation or city to tolerate terrorists so blatantly thriving in known neighborhoods.
If most of the 320 million Americans are not murderers, why aren't they able to stop the many thousands of murders in their society every year? Why are Americans sympathetic to murder? How many murders have you personally stopped?
I hope you see how ridiculous what you're saying really is.
So you mean simply sharing a general characteristic does not make everyone the same? Glad you are able to recognize that. So you are no doubt going to stop your maligning of all Muslims based on the ideological actions of the minority?
I'm guessing not, because we live in a world of hypocrisy.
Never said that. Of course not all Muslims are bad. You're still missing the point . Not all Muslims have to be 'bad' in order for the ideology to be a threat to the western world. You brought up Catholic Priests earlier- There's no doubt in my mind that not all Catholic priests are child molesters but with that said I'm not letting my kids hangout behind closed doors them anytime soon. Does that make me a bigot? Of course not, because Catholic Priests are white, so who cares, right? YOU are the one being a hypocrite here, not me. Again, I never said all Muslims were bad..and I never will.
I guess it's not really racism, because it's mostly white people who are doing it to themselves. I guess it plays more along the lines of white guilt and ignorance.
Something tells me your sources are definitely biased, just like the others you've given.
You've also changed the claim. I thought we were talking about people who were actually engaging in terrorism. You want to include all people who may feel "sympathy" but not actually doing anything, though that number could be wildly changeable depending on how one defines being sympathetic to that end. Even with your numbers, that would mean 93% of Muslims neither engage in nor are sympathetic to terrorists. The rest are what vetting is for.
The "no-go" zones were actually made up. They don't exist. Logically, even if the claim hadn't been a total lie, it would make literally no sense for a nation or city to tolerate terrorists so blatantly thriving in known neighborhoods.
If most of the 320 million Americans are not murderers, why aren't they able to stop the many thousands of murders in their society every year? Why are Americans sympathetic to murder? How many murders have you personally stopped?
I hope you see how ridiculous what you're saying really is.
"Something tells me your sources are definitely biased, just like the others you've given. "
"Something"??? Tooth fairy? Easter bunny? God? What sources are biased?
Carrying on an honest discussion with you is fruitless. You always dismiss someone else's numbers for yours no matter what is put in front of you. I'm not changing anything i used a low 4- 7% medium when there are many articles written by many different sides with estimates as high as 25% of muslims are jihadists,sympathisees or whatever you want to call them. But you simply dismiss them. And You can find many articles written by French journalist and many videos of the no go zones I am talking about. But again you live in your own politically correct world And would rather dismiss other viewpoints and information if it doesn't fit your narrative. Maybe if I get the Russians involved you be interested?
Last edited by 1watertiger; 06-09-2017 at 02:52 PM..
Reason: Spellingspelling
Never said that. Of course not all Muslims are bad. You're still missing the point . Not all Muslims have to be 'bad' in order for the ideology to be a threat to the western world. You brought up Catholic Priests earlier- There's no doubt in my mind that not all Catholic priests are child molesters but with that said I'm not letting my kids hangout behind closed doors them anytime soon. Does that make me a bigot? Of course not, because Catholic Priests are white, so who cares, right? YOU are the one being a hypocrite here, not me. Again, I never said all Muslims were bad..and I never will.
I guess it's not really racism, because it's mostly white people who are doing it to themselves. I guess it plays more along the lines of white guilt and ignorance.
And you're not using the same comparison. You use terrorism as a reason to ban all Muslims from certain countries, regardless of any actual ties (or even sympathy) to that ideology. The equivalent would not just be taking care to not allow your kids near priests, but not associating with any Catholic whatsoever. If any Muslim should be regarded with suspicion due to terrorism, why shouldn't any Catholic be regarded with suspicion of pedophilia? It's the same logic.
The whole point is that whether or not you think all Muslims are bad, you are absolutely engaging in that position by supporting blanket bans on entire Muslim populations based on the actions or potential actions of a few. If you subsequently don't apply that same reasoning to a myriad of other demographics, then you are merely being arbitrarily hypocritical and discriminatory.
I have no idea what you're talking about with the white guilt stuff.
"Something tells me your sources are definitely biased, just like the others you've given. "
"Something"??? Tooth fairy? Easter bunny? God? What sources are biased?
Carrying on an honest discussion with you is fruitless. You always dismiss someone else's numbers for yours no matter what is put in front of you. I'm not changing anything i used a low 4- 7% medium when there are many articles written by many different sides with estimates as high as 25% of muslims are jihadists,sympathisees or whatever you want to call them. But you simply dismiss them. And You can find many articles written by French journalist and many videos of the no go zones I am talking about. But again you live in your own politically correct world And would rather dismiss other viewpoints and information if it doesn't fit your narrative. Maybe if I get the Russians involved you be interested?
I question your sources because you've already provided some from well-known anti-immigration and far-right websites. Your propensity to take any report that suggests 25% of al Muslims are terrorists or their sympathizers, which would put the number at almost 2x the population of the United State just shows that you're willing to believe the worst because it suits your preconceived biases. How you can even consider that there are over 400 million terrorists out there is just incredible.
I question your sources because you've already provided some from well-known anti-immigration and far-right websites. Your propensity to take any report that suggests 25% of al Muslims are terrorists or their sympathizers, which would put the number at almost 2x the population of the United State just shows that you're willing to believe the worst because it suits your preconceived biases. How you can even consider that there are over 400 million terrorists out there is just incredible.
I guess you missed the sentence where I said the low medium I could believe was 4-7%. I discarded the high 25% and your low of 100,000. And why do you constantly write you believe there are only a "few" bad muslims in your arguments? Few =3
Still waiting for your response from my earlier post.
I guess you missed the sentence where I said the low medium I could believe was 4-7%. I discarded the high 25% and your low of 100,000. And why do you constantly write you believe there are only a "few" bad muslims in your arguments? Few =3
Still waiting for your response from my earlier post.
You didn't discard it because you brought it up as evidence to suggest I was far too low. Even your 4-7% would be ridiculous, and would still be large enough to basically be causing global war. That's why most experts believe the true number is very low relative to the total, because terrorist acts are often perpetrated by individuals or small groups. The entirety of ISIS was officially estimated by the US to be between 20,000-35,000 last year, and it's the biggest of all the Islamic extremist groups. If you think there are tens or even hundreds of millions out there, what evidence do you have for it that the US IC doesn't?
And for the record, "few" doesn't mean any specific number, only that it can be interpreted as definitely more than 1, but not the majority and not even a plurality. Even if I was to except your 7%- which I do not-, that would fall under the definition of "few" given that Muslims represent 24% of the global population.
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. Not all Muslims have to be 'bad' in order for the ideology to be a threat to the western world. You brought up Catholic Priests earlier- There's no doubt in my mind that not all Catholic priests are child molesters but with that said I'm not letting my kids hangout behind closed doors them anytime soon. Does that make me a bigot? Of course not, because Catholic Priests are white, so who cares, right? YOU are the one being a hypocrite here, not me. Again, I never said all Muslims were bad..and I never will. 
