Springfield vs Lima (Toledo, Beavercreek, Zanesville: homes, neighborhood, to live)

[Magicalmoe]

Originally Posted by SWOH

I'd also choose Springfield over Lima, because Springfield is significantly less isolated.


You're 20 min to Dayton suburbia, 30 min to downtown Dayton, 35 min to Columbus suburbia, and 45 min to downtown Columbus if you're in the center of Springfield, vs. Lima which is an 60 min from Dayton, and 90 min from Toledo.


But to be honest, with that budget and requirements I wouldn't live in Springfield.
Fairborn would be a decent choice for buying a house in that budget, as would Huber Heights.
The commutes would not be horrible, and there are definitely other people your age in both cities that have made the same decision.


As for more social places for dating, etc. I'd go into Dayton city limits, that budget works nicely in South Park, and from what I see it's a very social place to live. You could also buy a condo in Beavercreek (this might actually be one of your better options if you're OK without a fully detached house).


Good luck!

I appreciate the advice. Maybe I've overestimated both Lima and Springfield. I was looking at populations and they both don't appear tiny. I guess a good question would be how to you see each area performing economically over the next decade? How do you see populations trending?
If I buy property I would like to see some appreciation. I was trying to stay out of the immediate Dayton and Toledo areas. Just to have some room to breath, slower pace of life, nicer people and lower COL. But I don't want to live in a tiny village. I want to have some restaurants/bars/single women. I may need to adjust my search.

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by Magicalmoe

I appreciate the advice. Maybe I've overestimated both Lima and Springfield. I was looking at populations and they both don't appear tiny. I guess a good question would be how to you see each area performing economically over the next decade? How do you see populations trending?
If I buy property I would like to see some appreciation. I was trying to stay out of the immediate Dayton and Toledo areas. Just to have some room to breath, slower pace of life, nicer people and lower COL. But I don't want to live in a tiny village. I want to have some restaurants/bars/single women. I may need to adjust my search.

I think that's fine if you are already married and have put down roots. But I question a young person deciding to go to one of those areas before their lives are settled. I could be dead wrong about this -- I don't have experience living in one of these cities. But the people I know who moved from those cities generally feel there's nothing for them there.

[kevinbelt]

Compared to 10-15 years ago, Springfield is actually in much better shape. But that's not saying much. It's at kind of a critical juncture right now. As noted, the Target just closed, along with other high-dollar retailers like JCPenney and Old Navy. A few other chains are closing, and the mall is pretty much vacant now. There are signs that the local businesses that disappeared when the mall opened are coming back. We just opened a microbrewery, for example. If that trend continues, it could become a nice town. If it doesn't, and we lose the chains without replacing them, the city will go into a death spiral.

One thing to note is that Springfield's population is pretty elderly. The city is going to shrink considerably over the next few decades. I wouldn't be surprised to see it bottom out around 45,000. That means less tax revenue, less support for businesses (aka more closures), and falling property values. On the other hand, if it's going to survive, it's going to be because people like you move there.

[greenvillebuckeye]

As a native of Lima (born, raised, left at age 23) and haven't been back in 13 years I would choose Springfield if I was in my 20s and or early to mid 30s. Especially if you are single and educated. With Springfield's proximity to CBus and Dayton you'd be in a much better position.

If I were married with kids and was presented with an opp. to work back home to Lima i'd probably go with but only because of family still being in Lima.

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by kevinbelt

Compared to 10-15 years ago, Springfield is actually in much better shape. But that's not saying much. It's at kind of a critical juncture right now. As noted, the Target just closed, along with other high-dollar retailers like JCPenney and Old Navy. A few other chains are closing, and the mall is pretty much vacant now. There are signs that the local businesses that disappeared when the mall opened are coming back. We just opened a microbrewery, for example. If that trend continues, it could become a nice town. If it doesn't, and we lose the chains without replacing them, the city will go into a death spiral.

One thing to note is that Springfield's population is pretty elderly. The city is going to shrink considerably over the next few decades. I wouldn't be surprised to see it bottom out around 45,000. That means less tax revenue, less support for businesses (aka more closures), and falling property values. On the other hand, if it's going to survive, it's going to be because people like you move there.

Beavercreek is the main reason Upper Valley Mall went down the tubes. The shopping there is so much more complete than anything Springfield could ever support. Then you have the problems with the economy and the imploding department store industry. But anyway, not that you should care about what stores a community has, but it does indicate what the business community thinks about the area.

-Meijer
Findlay
Lima
Mansfield
Springfield

-Menards
Findlay
Lima
Mansfield
Springfield

-Chipotle
Findlay
Lima
Mansfield
Springfield

-Macy's
Lima
Mansfield

-Kroger
Findlay
Mansfield - Kroger Marketplace
Springfield

[Natural510]

Springfield is better at supporting local restaurants now than in the past. Several local pizzerias, two authentic Mexican restaurants along with a couple non-chain Mexican-American establishments, a Texas taco restaurant, an Irish Pub, and even the occasional Middle Eastern or Mediterranean place which eeks out for a year before closing. The food truck thing has hit lately also. These places along with the brewpub and a few indie coffee shops didn't exist 15-20 years ago when I visited family here.
With the expanded organic/natural food sections at Kroger & Meijer and more expansive offerings in less than 30 minute drive, you can get what you need here. Just don't expect a very intellectual crowd outside of the Wittenberg campus and certain niche gatherings like the Springfield Symphony (yes, it exists) and Springfield Art Museum showings.

The town is certainly run down in many areas but the nicer areas end to fly under the radar, especially those in the $200-300k+ range:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9505...8i6656!6m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9626...!7i3328!8i1664

[kevinbelt]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

Beavercreek is the main reason Upper Valley Mall went down the tubes.

That's more or less true, but it's not so cut-and-dried. There was a mini-renaissance at the Upper Valley Mall around 2000, seven years after Fairfield Commons opened, when we got a Gap, an American Eagle, a Hot Topic, and various other new stores. Some of those (Gap) quickly closed, but the big downturn now is due to the loss of anchor tenants. Beavercreek plays a part, but not the major part. If JCP, Macy's, and Elder Beerman hadn't contracted, Upper Valley would still be in OK shape. But they are contracting, and because Beavercreek is so close to Springfield, it doesn't make sense to keep two stores so close to each other. Beavercreek's are the better performing stores, so Springfield loses.

not that you should care about what stores a community has, but it does indicate what the business community thinks about the area

This is somewhat misleading. Yes, it means that Macy's and some other companies don't think terribly highly of Springfield. But that's not the whole story, and it certainly shouldn't imply that Macy's, and by extension other businesses, think more highly of Lima or Mansfield. Look at a map of Macy's stores. There are two other stores in the Dayton-Springfield area, and four more in Columbus. Meanwhile, northwest Ohio is a wasteland. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no Macy's for over an hour in any direction from Lima. What it means is that Macy's believes the Dayton-Springfield market is too saturated to support a third store, while the northwest Ohio market is so unsaturated that even a smallish, declining market like Lima can support a single store, because that store will attract shoppers from surrounding counties who would otherwise have to make a day trip to shop.

Look instead at growing companies in market segments that don't reach saturation so quickly: Chipotle, Five Guys, Panera, Sonic, Bed Bath & Beyond, Planet Fitness. Springfield is pulling those places in just fine.

[PerryMason614]

You are correct that there are many other reasons for the failure of Upper Valley, but it simply was never a good mall. It didn't have a great selection of stores and it wasn't really in a good location. In fact, that entire strip of big box retail where Chipotle and Walmart is (I forget the name of the road--Bechtle?) looks very poorly planned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the nicer developments in Springfield are in the north. This by itself is odd. Usually cities grow in the direction of the larger city. You would think Springfield would be growing toward Beavercreek and Dayton.

The department stores are all has-beens. They are nothing but overpriced/oversized clothing stores with merchandise that neither appeals to the shopper with money nor the shopper looking for a bargain. Macy's (Federated) made a huge mistake in the 1980's when they got rid of Gold Circle. They should have gotten rid of the department stores instead.

[kevinbelt]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the nicer developments in Springfield are in the north. This by itself is odd. Usually cities grow in the direction of the larger city.

You're absolutely right. Northwest. It's a legacy of race. The south side of the city is the black side. There's a little development on Limestone off the freeway, but only a little, and even that isn't really patronized by white locals very much. The white people with money to spend live on the north side, and so that's where developers build. Much of the south side is still seen as a no-go area for whites.

In fact, that entire strip of big box retail where Chipotle and Walmart is (I forget the name of the road--Bechtle?) looks very poorly planned.

You're probably giving it too much credit. Poor planning assumes some planning at all was done. It was a mad scramble to see who could build the fastest. But you can avoid Bechtle/First Street pretty easily. I'm rarely in that area when I go back.

[Dayton Sux]

Gee, which city is suckier? Hard to say. Lima has its own TV station. Springfield does not. Guess that's the decide?


Lima is famous for bulldozing their historic downtown and replacing it with soulless modern office blocks,

What I thought was neat---in its own rustbelt way---was that the Lima Locomotive Works was still standing on the S Side of Lima. The company went out of business in the 1950s, but the vacant (mostly vacant) plant was still there in the early 1990s....which I guess is a bit like that big empty Crowe-Collier plant in Springfield. White elephants so massive that they arn't even worth tearing down.