Should I Move to Youngstown? (Columbus, Warren: houses, rent, lease)

[jl0810]

I have the option to move to the Youngstown area as part of a new job opportunity for my company (retail - food service based industry) I've only been there once, and was not too impressed. I grew up in Charlotte, NC (also lived in Columbus for a few years), so I 'm used to living in mid-size cities. However, I have a few questions before I took the next steps (and frankly I only know a few people that have actually lived there for any period of time):

1) Is there really a strong mafia presence? Some folks have warned about a a Youngstown Tune-Up (some type of car bomb or something). I doubt this still goes on today in 2008, but does it? Should I research this more?

2) I've heard that I should stay far away from downtown Youngstown (specifically it was mentioned that Hilman avenue was the most dangerous part of the city, perhaps America). Is that true, and is this connected to the Mafia?

3) Is the economy really that depressed? I know it's been talked about in the national media, but I find it hard to believe it's really that bad. My friend said everyone there is talking about how great the city was like 30 years ago (some type of park there?) - that seems hard to believe that everyone is stuck that far in th past. True?

4) Does everyone there really drive a Cavalier? I know there is GM plant nearby, but I thought they made the Cobalt?

5) Are they opening up riverboat gambling soon? I am single and that sounds exciting. If not, how's the river? I have a small boat I might be able to bring up on trailer

Thanks!

[CortlandGirl79]

A good question for you to answer for us is, exactly where will you be working?? In the city of Youngstown or a surrounding area??? If you are considering moving here, what kind of neighborhood do you want to live in??? What do you like to do for fun???

1) Is there really a strong mafia presence? Some folks have warned about a a Youngstown Tune-Up (some type of car bomb or something). I doubt this still goes on today in 2008, but does it? Should I research this more?

I would say, if the mob is still around, i never hear about it. Most of the mafia in Y-town is either dead or in jail. I also would say that most of the corruption that plagued this area in the past has diminished. About 10 years ago the FBI (i believe) along w/mahoning county took down the mob, a sheriff, and several others involved in corruption. As for the Youngstown Tune-Up, that is something that happened a lot in the 60s.

2) I've heard that I should stay far away from downtown Youngstown (specifically it was mentioned that Hilman avenue was the most dangerous part of the city, perhaps America). Is that true, and is this connected to the Mafia?

Downtown is actually quite nice as of late. There is a lot of new stuff going on down there that is very exciting.

downtownyoungstown.com - The City... Online!

:: De Yor Performing Arts Center ::

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Youngstown 2010

DEFEND YOUNGSTOWN!

3) Is the economy really that depressed? I know it's been talked about in the national media, but I find it hard to believe it's really that bad. My friend said everyone there is talking about how great the city was like 30 years ago (some type of park there?) - that seems hard to believe that everyone is stuck that far in th past. True?

I'm not going to lie, the economy is depressed, but if you have a decent job, the cost of living and location can't be beat, imo. Over the last few years we've lost a lot of good paying manufacturing jobs. It does seem like youngstown is beginning to turn the corner though. Youngstown's Business Incubator is growing by leaps and bounds Youngstown Business Incubator. It looks like Warren will be getting an incubator soon as well.

As for the park everyone is talking about, i'm assuming they are talking about Idora Park, Youngstown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You also should check out Mill Creek MetroParks

4) Does everyone there really drive a Cavalier? I know there is GM plant nearby, but I thought they made the Cobalt?

Um, no, not everyone drives a cavalier!!!!! Is this a joke???? I must say that the Mahoning Valley tends to drive GM more than anything else (probably because so many of us get the discount). Yes, GM Lordstown does make the Cobalt and Pontiac G5, they previously made the Cavalier and Sunfire. The only people i know that drive these cars are mostly high school and college aged.

5) Are they opening up riverboat gambling soon? I am single and that sounds exciting. If not, how's the river? I have a small boat I might be able to bring up on trailer

I believe the state of Ohio is not allowing riverboat gambling anywhere in Ohio, maybe cinci, but i'm not up on the latest news on that. There are lots of options when i comes to gambling though if you are willing to make the hour drive to Pittsburgh or Mountaineer Casino Racetrack and Resort or the 3 to 4 hour drive to Niagra or Detroit.

Unfortunately, Youngstown really hasn't really begun to utilize the Mahoning River yet, but there has been some talk about this.

I suspect that the people you have been talking to have either never been to Youngstown or they haven't been here in quite sometime. I hope those of us that are still hear can give you an honest opinion one what the area is like.

[Mikieo415]

Originally Posted by jl0810

1) Is there really a strong mafia presence? Some folks have warned about a a Youngstown Tune-Up (some type of car bomb or something). I doubt this still goes on today in 2008, but does it? Should I research this more?

There is still some mafia presence around, but it is not as bad as it used to be. A lot of the crooked politicians, commissioners, councilmen, sheriffs, congressmen and the like have been sent to prison. There are no more car bombs, but don't be fooled, the mafia is alive and well. You just don't see it every day anymore.

2) I've heard that I should stay far away from downtown Youngstown (specifically it was mentioned that Hilman avenue was the most dangerous part of the city, perhaps America). Is that true, and is this connected to the Mafia?

Downtown is getting better, but it isn't anything to write home about. Hillman used to be the worst street in the city but almost all the houses have been torn down so it isn't as bad anymore. It had nothing to do with the mofia, it is just ghetto. Every major street that runs through the city has a legacy and most are ghetto.

3) Is the economy really that depressed? I know it's been talked about in the national media, but I find it hard to believe it's really that bad. My friend said everyone there is talking about how great the city was like 30 years ago (some type of park there?) - that seems hard to believe that everyone is stuck that far in th past. True?

YES!!! People wait in lines to get $7 and $8 dollar an hour jobs. The only new industry in the area is telemarketing and call centers. Everyone is stuck in the past because that is the only thing going for the city... it's comeback to the splendor it used to have. You will hear stories about how when the mills used to be open things were bliss and wonderful. Some people wish the mob still ran the place so it would be under control. The are is a union stronghold. This doesn't necessarily mean there is a preponderance of union jobs, but it just goes back to the trite story of how "back in the day when unions were king..." You will often hear about how "they" are throwing the screws to the valley because "they" want to punish the unions...

There are more boarded up, vacated, useless buildings and vacant lots in the city limits than there are occupied business and homes.

4) Does everyone there really drive a Cavalier? I know there is GM plant nearby, but I thought they made the Cobalt?

A lot of people drive them. The Cobalt is nothing more than the cavalier with a cobalt label on it. It is no better than its predecessor. They are cheap ugly cars. I know some idiot who leased a cobalt for well over $400 a month because it was locally made. Youngstown pride.

5) Are they opening up riverboat gambling soon? I am single and that sounds exciting. If not, how's the river? I have a small boat I might be able to bring up on trailer

The issue has come up time and time again and always shot down because gambling is immoral. At least that's what the voters think. No riverboats. How is the mighty Mahoning? I saw fish pulled out of that river with multiple eyes and tumors and deformities. The river is not as polluted as it used to be but it is still toxic. If you want to boat you would have to go to a near-by lake. The river is not used, for good reason.

Don't waste your time visiting the place to see if you want to live there. The area is on the decline and some people are hellbent on living in denial about it. I can guarantee more people would leave the god forsaken wasteland if they didn't have family there or a house that will never sell or the ability to get rid of the entitlement "give me" atitude. More people leave the area than move to it. The city, in its hay day had over 180,000. It lost 100,000 people in 30 years. Some say "but the suburbs are OK", but why would you want to live somewhere who's city center is a dump? Need I say more?

[Mikieo415]

Oh, and the weather sucks. Say goodbye to mr. sunshine in November, never to return until may, and he brings his evil step sister miss muggy.

[JR_C]

Well jl0810, you've gotten the balanced response from CortlandGirl, and the overly negative response from Mikieo. Unfortunately, this area has such a bad reputation because there are a lot of people like Mikieo.

Mikieo,
Before you moved away, where did you live?
Did you live in the city?
How long did you live here?
When did you move away?

[CortlandGirl79]

Originally Posted by Mikieo415

The city, in its hay day had over 180,000. It lost 100,000 people in 30 years. Some say "but the suburbs are OK", but why would you want to live somewhere who's city center is a dump? Need I say more?

You have your facts wrong my friend. Youngstown never had 180,000 residents. At it's peak the city of Youngstown had 170k people, but that was in 1930, not 30 years ago. The only reason Youngstown ever had that large of a population was because of the number of immigrants moving here to work in the steel mills. In 1980, right after the collapse of the mills (almost 30 years ago) the city had a population of 115,000. So really the city has lost app. 30k people over the past 30 years. I'm not saying that this was a good thing, but that's the facts. Also, you have to consider that Youngstown and Warren's suburbs have grown by leaps and bounds over the years, mostly due to "white flight". People didn't want to live in the city once they started making more money. They also didn't want to send their kids to the Youngstown City Schools after they started going down hill.

(Youngstown, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Youngstown history so you can be better informed)

Here are some interesting stats from wikipedia:

Historical populations for Youngstown:
Census Pop. %±
1870 8,075 —
1880 15,435 91.1%
1890 33,220 115.2%
1900 30,667 -7.7%
1910 79,066 157.8%
1920 132,358 67.4%
1930 170,002 28.4%
1940 167,720 -1.3%
1950 168,330 0.4%
1960 166,688 -1.0%
1970 139,788 -16.1%
1980 115,427 -17.4%
1990 95,787 -17.0%
2000 82,026 -14.4%
Est. 2006 81,520 -0.6%

[Mikieo415]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

You have your facts wrong my friend. Youngstown never had 180,000 residents. At it's peak the city of Youngstown had 170k people, but that was in 1930, not 30 years ago.

I stand corrected. Youngstown lost 100,000 people in less than 80 years. That's bad. Really bad. 80 years ago most cities were small and grew. Youngstown didn't. Dress it up however you want to, but a net loss of about 60% is absurd.

[Mikieo415]

Originally Posted by JR_C

Well jl0810, you've gotten the balanced response from CortlandGirl, and the overly negative response from Mikieo. Unfortunately, this area has such a bad reputation because there are a lot of people like Mikieo.

Mikieo,
Before you moved away, where did you live?
Did you live in the city?
How long did you live here?
When did you move away?

Where do I begin?

First off, you can call my opinions and stated facts "overly negative"; I call them truthful and accurate. As far as why the area gets a bad rap you are wrong. The city's reputation is not bad because of realists like me who call it like they see it. It is bad because the city sucks. Period. Enough people agree with me.

This discussion is about Youngstown not about me. The OP asked specific questions and I gave specific replies. Discount them as overly negative if you want, I don't care. If you must know I recently moved to Denver after 25 years of living in Austintown, Youngstown (north side) and Warren. But, this is not about me.

If people are considering Youngstown as a potential home, they have a right to know what they are potentially getting into. There are a lot of *serious* problems there that some of you refuse to acknowledge. You can give "well balanced" reports, and I will give truthful facts and my opinion. If I can save one person from making this kind of mistake, my job is successful.

[JR_C]

I'm just interested in providing a balanced answer to anyone who is interested in Youngstown. I'm interested in making the city better. How can the city improve if anyone interested in moving here is scared away?

I admit that I take it personally when someone calls my home a "dump," though. Wouldn't you?

So, I thought I'd add a little balance to your original reply.

Originally Posted by Mikieo415

but don't be fooled, the mafia is alive and well. You just don't see it every day anymore.

Can you back this up, or is it just your opinion?

Every major street that runs through the city has a legacy and most are ghetto.

I somewhat agree. Most of Youngstown's main streets aren't always pretty. There is a lot of neglect. 5th Ave. comes to mind as one of the nicest streets, but even it has some neglect towards downtown. The real charm is in the neighborhoods.

YES!!! People wait in lines to get $7 and $8 dollar an hour jobs.

I wouldn't know about this. The company I work for had to hire an employment agency because they couldn't find anyone locally.

The only new industry in the area is telemarketing and call centers.

Don't forget about the new technology center downtown.

Everyone is stuck in the past because that is the only thing going for the city... it's comeback to the splendor it used to have.

Those of us who are truely interested in Youngstown's comeback have no interest in recreating what it used to be. We're only looking toward the future, and at what today's Youngstown can become.

There are more boarded up, vacated, useless buildings and vacant lots in the city limits than there are occupied business and homes.

Again, can you back this up, or is it just your opinion?

A lot of people drive them.

I haven't noticed any more Cavaliers (or Cobalts) here than anywhere else in NE Ohio.

The Cobalt is nothing more than the cavalier with a cobalt label on it.

I assume you mean that the Cobalt is intended for the same market segment as the Cavalier. Becuase, with the exception of the engine and transmission, they are completely different cars.

They are cheap ugly cars.

Unless, someone happens to think they're not ugly.

How is the mighty Mahoning? I saw fish pulled out of that river with multiple eyes and tumors and deformities. The river is not as polluted as it used to be but it is still toxic. If you want to boat you would have to go to a near-by lake. The river is not used, for good reason.

There is a project, through the Army Corps of Engineers to clean up the river. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Pittsburgh District - Mahoning River, Ohio Environmental Dredging A friend of a friend regularly runs his hover-craft on the Mahoning river. A co-worker went canoeing on the Mahoning, but up in Trumbull county. Most people don't realize the river could be used.

Don't waste your time visiting the place to see if you want to live there.

I was given similar advice when I first moved here 8 years ago. I'm glad I didn't listen.

The area is on the decline and some people are hellbent on living in denial about it.

And, some people are working to make it better.

I can guarantee more people would leave the god forsaken wasteland if they didn't have family there or a house that will never sell or the ability to get rid of the entitlement "give me" atitude.

It really is a shame that some people who would like to leave are stuck here for whatever reason. When they spread their frustration, like you, they're only holding back those who are working to make Youngstown better.

More people leave the area than move to it.

I believe the Youngstown metro area lost about five thousand people in the last year. But I was never a follower.

To the original poster, if you're still here...

When I see neglected/abandoned homes and buildings, I see opportunity to make things better. If you think these are eyesores, then Youngstown is probably not for you.

[CortlandGirl79]

JR, that is one of the best posts i've seen in a while. I tried to give you rep, but it CD wouldn't let me.

Anyway, there are people in this area that don't have a bad attitude and they do want to see it succeed. I'm one of those people. I think if more people woke up and actually looked for the good here, they would find it.

Over the past fews years i've really noticed a change in the thinking of a lot of people around here (mostly the younger generation that has chosen to stay, even after being educated). I have a friend who has a master's in communication that came back and now helps run his family's business. One of my best friends is an interior designer (Kent State grad) that works for an architecture firm in downtown youngstown and she loves it.

If you look at Phil Kidd's blog DEFEND YOUNGSTOWN! you can read about all the good things that are going on around here. There are also plenty of links there that will take you to other young Y-town bloggers that are working for change as well.

Why keep reflecting on the past and the negative, it's time to move on!!! Like JR said,

Those of us who are truely interested in Youngstown's comeback have no interest in recreating what it used to be. We're only looking toward the future, and at what today's Youngstown can become.