Youngstown Annex Boardman Austintown (Salem: school district, maintenance, disposal)

[jam40jeff]

Originally Posted by South Range Family

You also have the misconception that the rural areas were created by the City, and that we are sapping tax revenue from the city when people move away.

You are 100% wrong. The rural areas were here first. Most of us were born out here, and have no ties to the city. You have no claim to our tax dollars.

You have some good points, but I think you're wrong here. In the area north of Salem, you may be right. But the much more highly developed township areas bordering Youngstown most assuredly only exist because of the city. If they were in the middle of northwest Ohio the population would probably be 1/20th what it is. I don't think annexing random farmland 30 miles way is being suggested, but rather areas which are a part of the Youngstown economy and workforce (suburban type areas).

[South Range Family]

We're not talking 30 miles. The county is 30 miles wide by 15 miles high. My school district borders Boardman. I can be within Youngstown city limits in about 8 miles.

Salem already did it once. They are now at it again. Where do we stop them? Ellsworth? North Jackson? How about Lordstown? "Give Poland to Hitler, he won't take anything else."

Here's the bottom line. City dwellers are parasites that are convinced that their failing ways would work, if they could just convince the simple country bumpkins to give up more of their land, and all of their cash.

The city people need to become more self sufficient, and leave the rest of us alone.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by South Range Family

This is the original topic, and these are my thoughts. All annexation is bad. The boundaries were drawn a long time ago. They should be left alone.

How far back in time should we go? Should we make Canfield the county seat again? My house was built in 1915, and was in Youngstown Township briefly, before it was annexed by the city.

Look at a map of the County lines. Do you see that square area above Salem? That was caused by annexation. Columbiana County stole land, and tax revenue from Mahoning County. The City of Salem is now trying to pull the same thing again.

Was this a relatively recent change? (Say, within the last 50 years?) I don't know my local history that well, wasn't Mahoning county created from Trumbull and Columbiana counties?

They are trying to purchase the drag strip to build an industrial park. Once they purchase the land, they will annex it into the City. The next step will be to run water and sewers to their industrial park.

To do that they have to annex all of the land along routes 62, 45, and, 165. There are currently 5 businesses, and about 30 high dollar houses in that area. That means sales tax money, and property taxes that are currently being paid to Mahoning County will be sent to Columbiana County instead. The residents will then be charged a City income tax.

I'm no expert, but I don't think that's how it works. Salem already extends into Mahoning County. Alliance also extends into Mahoning County. But, that doesn't change the county's boundaries. You're right that the businesses and residents of that area would be subject to Salem's income tax. But, cities can't collect sales taxes. I don't know if cities can collect property taxes, or not. But, the only property taxes I pay that are different from everyone else's property tax in Mahoning county are for schools. I don't know if Salem has any special property taxes.

That also means that kids living along the North side of Pine Lake Rd. will eventually be made to attend Salem City schools. The South side of that road was already forced in at the last annexation.

How was this done? Who "forced" this change? Again, I could be wrong, but I thought school district boundaries were set by the state. The Youngstown School District boundaries cross into Boardman and Poland, I think. This was either because the state was petitioned by the residents, a long time ago, to do so. Or, because it was assumed, at the time, that these areas would eventually be annexed.

So who wins? The City of Salem.

Who loses? Mahoning County, Green Township, South Range schools, and the people living in the area that surrounds the drag strip.

I don't know enough about this transaction to know who wins or loses.

How do you like it now that the shoe is on the other foot?

I don't understand this comment.

Youngstown annexation would be no different.

How can you know that? I typically look at Columbus as the model of how well annexation would work. It seems to have worked well for them. But, I couldn't say with any certainty that it would for us.

You also have the misconception that the rural areas were created by the City, and that we are sapping tax revenue from the city when people move away.

You are 100% wrong. The rural areas were here first. Most of us were born out here, and have no ties to the city. You have no claim to our tax dollars.

The suburban areas were created by the city. From what I can tell, Boardman and Austintown used to be beautiful, rural/farming communities until people started moving out of the city.

I can't believe that all 70,000 people who live in Boardman and Austintown are descendants of the original farmers, and that every one of the 80k-90k people who left Youngstown moved out of the county.

Originally Posted by South Range Family

I see in another post that you are promising Boardman residents a possible 4 mill reduction in property taxes.

I'm not "promising" anything. This is a theoretical discussion.

I looked up a buddy's property in Boardman. It said this..."The yearly value factor for your property is: $48.59 per mill". That means a 4 mill reduction would save him a whopping $194.36 in yearly property taxes.

I happen to know that he makes just a hair over $100k per year. That means with your "eventually" 2% income tax, he will be paying 2 grand to the city.
But wait, there's more.

His wife makes 40 grand per year. Her Youngstown City tax would be another $800 per year.

I won't even bother adding in what his kid makes working minimum wage, while going to school.

So, tell me how you are going to convince this family of three to trade in their $194 property tax for a $3000 income tax. You aren't offering 3 grand worth of benefits for them to become city residents. In fact, when I show him the math, he is going to blow a gasket.

I'm sure people working in the city would be happy to have that property tax reduction since they already pay city income taxes. Of the 10 people who work at my office, only 4 of us live in the city.

[South Range Family]

I found this link while searching for the exact dates of the last annexation, but yes it was in the last 50 years. Green Township to fight Quaker City annexation - MorningJournalNews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Lisbon, Ohio - The Morning Journal

All of Salem, and parts of Perry Township are now in Columbiana County. All of that money goes to Columbiana County.

Home Depot built a store in Green Township on route 14, Mahoning County. Salem tried to annex them in too by witholding water. That is sales tax money that Mahoning County wouldn't be getting if we hadn't stopped them. If you read the article, Salem claims to need room for industrial expansion. They conveniently fail to mention the industrial area that is being torn down right next to a main rail line. They are delusional in thinking that businesses would be breaking down their doors if there was just more room to expand. Youngstown is employing the same delusional thinking.

It's 4:00 PM. Time for me to go to bed.

[jam40jeff]

Originally Posted by South Range Family

Here's the bottom line. City dwellers are parasites that are convinced that their failing ways would work, if they could just convince the simple country bumpkins to give up more of their land, and all of their cash.

Wow.

City dwellers and "country bumpkins" each have their own purpose. As an urbanist, I respect rural areas as much as the city. What I do not respect is the suburbs (and especially the exurbs). If you truly are a "country bumpkin" farmer or whatever you do, you should feel the same way. Too many suburbanites are sprawling across the country, ruining both the cities and the farms. It shouldn't be the city you fear, but the subdivisions paving their way out towards your farm.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by jam40jeff

Too many suburbanites are sprawling across the country, ruining both the cities and the farms. It shouldn't be the city you fear, but the subdivisions paving their way out towards your farm.

You can say that again! I thought about this, this morning - last summer, my mom and I turned east onto Western Reserve Road off of South Ave. (We were going to a landscape supply center out that way.) It was clear to us that it was once a beautiful area with rolling hills, etc. But, was ruined by the new housing developments along the way.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by South Range Family

I found this link while searching for the exact dates of the last annexation, but yes it was in the last 50 years. Green Township to fight Quaker City annexation - MorningJournalNews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Lisbon, Ohio - The Morning Journal

All of Salem, and parts of Perry Township are now in Columbiana County. All of that money goes to Columbiana County.

From the article you posted:

One of the concerns Slagel said is the way the city likes to make annexed areas tax-free zones, which he said affects the schools and others by creating a loss of revenue.

If annexed, the city of Salem would provide tax incentives on that land to spur development. However, that's not what you were implying. That land is still in Mahoning county, and is still in the South Range School district. So, when those tax breaks that Salem is likely to offer expire, the taxes would still go to Mahoning county and South Range Schools. (unless the district boundaries are changed.) Green Twp. would lose out though, but they would no longer have to provide the services those taxes were paying for, anyway.

Here is a screen shot from the Mahoning County auditor's website showing municipalities, and school districts. (school districts are denoted by color)

I'm not sure why, but that little bit of Salem that is in Mahoning County is considered part of Perry Twp.

[South Range Family]

The land would no longer belong to Green township. It would become part of Columbiana County. No tax money would ever come back to Mahoning County. Salem wouldn't have the authority to grant any tax breaks unless the land was in their County, and they were the tax collecting agency. They can't grant a tax break on somebody else's territory.

Salem, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Read the part under geography.

Perry Township is almost non existent because of being annexed into Salem.

At one time, that white area in the bottom corner of your map belonged to Mahoning County. The County line runs through the Wal-Mart parking lot. The gas station, and the small plaza up front are in Mahoning County. The line then shoots North along some power lines.

That little part of Perry is along a hill that drops down to a poisoned creek. Nobody wants it.

I'm done playing. I have a few hours of grass cutting before I go to bed..........

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by South Range Family

The land would no longer belong to Green township.

True.

It would become part of Columbiana County.

I don't thinik this is true. As the map I posted illustrates, part of Salem is already in Mahoning County.

No tax money would ever come back to Mahoning County. Salem wouldn't have the authority to grant any tax breaks unless the land was in their County, and they were the tax collecting agency. They can't grant a tax break on somebody else's territory.

I don't know how that works. I would assume they (Salem) would work that out wirh the county commissioners. But city government takes the place of township government. County government doesn't change, AFAIK.

Salem, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Read the part under geography.

The people referenced in that article are residents of the city of Salem and Mahoning County.

Perry Township is almost non existent because of being annexed into Salem.

Youngstown township no longer exists at all.

At one time, that white area in the bottom corner of your map belonged to Mahoning County.

How long ago? That "notch" in Mahoning County's border was there on this map from 1918:
http://gis.mahoningcountyoh.gov/Publ...GHWAY_1918.pdf

I'm done playing. I have a few hours of grass cutting before I go to bed..........

I hope you're enjoying this beautiful weather while cutting the grass!

[jam40jeff]

MAHONING COUNTY OHIO 1895