Do you consider Ohio "Midwest" or "Back East?" (Columbus: delivery, metro area)

[Orwelleaut]

Eastern Ohio definitely has a lot of Italian ancestry, as does Western PA. Around Youngstown/Warren, Italian wedding soup is sold in the supermarkets. There is also a lot of excellent pizza around here, even in the smaller farming towns.

For absolutely amazing Italian cuisine, visit Little Italy in Cleveland. A very nice little historic section of the city, with excellent restaurants and delis.

Another place that has very strong Italian ancestry is Fairmont, WV. This is an old industrial city just South of Morgantown, so it is less than 100 miles from Pittsburgh.

[MaryBeth2]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

Eastern Ohio definitely has a lot of Italian ancestry, as does Western PA. Around Youngstown/Warren, Italian wedding soup is sold in the supermarkets. There is also a lot of excellent pizza around here, even in the smaller farming towns.

For absolutely amazing Italian cuisine, visit Little Italy in Cleveland. A very nice little historic section of the city, with excellent restaurants and delis.

Another place that has very strong Italian ancestry is Fairmont, WV. This is an old industrial city just South of Morgantown, so it is less than 100 miles from Pittsburgh.

I have missed the Italian foods in the stores. When we first came south, they looked at me like I was nuts when I would ask for Italian things.. like for pitzels, for instance. I would have to explain, and you know when you have to explain what it is, they dont have it.

[Orwelleaut]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Finally. I was hoping that you'd see there was no logic in your own argument.

There will always be someone else that "thinks" your accent is southern in this country. If I had to come up with a scale of southern-nothern accents, it'd probably look like this:

smalltown Alabama
Tupelo, MS
Birmingham, AL
Savanah, GA
Memphis, TN
Houston, TX
Nashville, TN
Lexington, KY
Louisville, KY
Baltimore, MA
Indianapolis, IN
Cincinnati, OH
Dayton, OH
Cols, OH
Pittsburgh, PA
Toledo, OH
Cleveland, OH
Detroit, MI
Chicago
Milwaukee
Minne
NYC
Providence
Boston

I agree somewhat, but I'd place Baltimore as more Northern in sound than Indy, Cincy, Dayton, and Columbus. Right next to Pittsburgh is just right for Baltimore. I also disagree on Toledo. Just 1 notch more in the Southern direction that Baltimore and Pitt. Toledo, like the Southern midwest, frequently "rides witthh an ink pin", aka, "writes with and ink pen". Baltimore pronounces words like "right", "might", "fight" totally Northern, while one hears some Southern sound in these words in the lower Midwest. Around CIncy/Dayton, "right" sounds like "ride". One does not hear "pin" for pen in Balt or Pitt, although one occasionally hears "gitt" for get around Pitt, but not very frequently. Balt, Pitt, and Philly are all influenced heavily by PA Dutch speech. They only sound Southern to a Bostonian. Cincy and Dayton sound Southern to a Pittsburgher. Chicago and Detroit should be more Southern than Cleveland. I'd put Buffalo and Cleveland right after MIlwaukee.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I mentioned that Cincinnati did have some Italian community. This was especially true in the past.

But lets look at some maps so you can see how big of a difference there is between SW Ohio and NE Ohio as far as that:



You mentioned Jewish, lets look at that map:


Then the majority ancestry reported in each county:


These maps basically prove what I was just saying. As you can see Cleveland/NE Ohio has a much larger Italian Population and Jewish Population (also percentage). Surrounding and south of the Cincinnati area is majority American-Ancestry counties.

The problems with your maps is that it's based on counties. The city and county are two completely different animals when it comes to Hamilton County. The city is heavily democratic, whereas the county was about half and half. The rest of the county is mostly white.

Btw, I cannot even see NOKY's counties on the Italian map?

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

They only sound Southern to a Bostonian. Cincy and Dayton sound Southern to a Pittsburgher. Chicago and Detroit should be more Southern than Cleveland. I'd put Buffalo and Cleveland right after MIlwaukee.

I placed Baltimore there because of my own travels to Baltimore. I noticed the southern influence, as a Cincinnatian ... of course, this could've been a mentality thing from reading the "you are now crossing the Mason Dixon Line" sign.

[Orwelleaut]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

I placed Baltimore there because of my own travels to Baltimore. I noticed the southern influence, as a Cincinnatian ... of course, this could've been a mentality thing from reading the "you are now crossing the Mason Dixon Line" sign.

I guess it depends on what on sees as going into a Southern influence. When it comes to the Mason-Dixon Line, this is just an arbitrary boundary. Baltimore, in my experience, was very much like Philly in most ways. Not just the sound of the speech pattern, but the look of the city with the rowhouses, and Baltimore being an industrial city. Baltimore is also very Jewish/Polish/Italian (Nancy Pelozi and Barbara Mikulski are from Baltimore) like a city in PA. Listen to Barbara Mikulski speak, and you will hear a good Baltimore accent. I don't think anyone, even a Bostonian, would hear this as a Southern sound.

You're much more likely to hear "you'ze guys" in Baltimore than "y'all". Baltimoreans seemed a little more mellow than Philly folks, but, then again, so do Pittsburghers. Speaking a little more slowly is not speaking Southern. What makes speech Southern is drawing vowels, and how one pronounces them. "gitt" is a Southern pronunciation of get, and "pin" a Southern pronunciation of pen.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

I guess it depends on what on sees as going into a Southern influence. When it comes to the Mason-Dixon Line, this is just an arbitrary boundary. Baltimore, in my experience, was very much like Philly in most ways. Not just the sound of the speech pattern, but the look of the city with the rowhouses, and Baltimore being an industrial city. Baltimore is also very Jewish/Polish/Italian (Nancy Pelozi and Barbara Mikulski are from Baltimore) like a city in PA. Listen to Barbara Mikulski speak, and you will hear a good Baltimore accent. I don't think anyone, even a Bostonian, would hear this as a Southern sound.

You're much more likely to hear "you'ze guys" in Baltimore than "y'all". Baltimoreans seemed a little more mellow than Philly folks, but, then again, so do Pittsburghers. Speaking a little more slowly is not speaking Southern. What makes speech Southern is drawing vowels, and how one pronounces them. "gitt" is a Southern pronunciation of get, and "pin" a Southern pronunciation of pen.

I used to live near Memphis, I know Baltimore isn't southern. At all. I've been there and would never make these claims, seriously. I was just joking about the Mason Dixon line sign.

We'll have to agree to disagree (which is ok). I think it's placed correctly in my list, in my opinion.

[BelieveInCleve]

I would put Baltimore right behind Pittsburgh according to your list of cities.

I would also put Indianapolis ahead of Cincinnati, if not Dayton also. Those two were about the same.

The rest is pretty accurate IMO.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I would also put Indianapolis ahead of Cincinnati, if not Dayton also. Those two were about the same.

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding Dayton?

With Indianapolis:

The reason I placed it where I did, is that because of almost any city in the U.S., you will notice a drop off in strength of the original local accent. The further you go into rural metro areas, the more relaxed the speech patterns become. Indy is surrounded by nothing and I think this affects its accent.

[yayoi]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

I agree somewhat, but I'd place Baltimore as more Northern in sound than Indy, Cincy, Dayton, and Columbus. Right next to Pittsburgh is just right for Baltimore. I also disagree on Toledo. Just 1 notch more in the Southern direction that Baltimore and Pitt. Toledo, like the Southern midwest, frequently "rides witthh an ink pin", aka, "writes with and ink pen". Baltimore pronounces words like "right", "might", "fight" totally Northern, while one hears some Southern sound in these words in the lower Midwest. Around CIncy/Dayton, "right" sounds like "ride". One does not hear "pin" for pen in Balt or Pitt, although one occasionally hears "gitt" for get around Pitt, but not very frequently. Balt, Pitt, and Philly are all influenced heavily by PA Dutch speech. They only sound Southern to a Bostonian. Cincy and Dayton sound Southern to a Pittsburgher. Chicago and Detroit should be more Southern than Cleveland. I'd put Buffalo and Cleveland right after MIlwaukee.

I have to disagree with you on Toledo. Our accent is closer to a Michigan accent than the southern midwest. I live in Cininnati now and I can tell you that there is no confusing me from a native Cincinnatian or even a Daytonian. I would put Toledo directly under Detroit.