Ohio: Economically depressed? (Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati: buy, school district, income)

[mrspink]

Well...I would have to disagree that Ohio has some of the worst school systems in the U.S.. I do agree that the urban areas need A LOT of work, but it is like that all over the country. You will not look at the statistics of ANY state's urban areas and not see a place that needs work. The graduation rates in almost any urban area in any state will be lower than that of the rural or suburban areas.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by mrspink

Well...I would have to disagree that Ohio has some of the worst school systems in the U.S.. I do agree that the urban areas need A LOT of work, but it is like that all over the country. You will not look at the statistics of ANY state's urban areas and not see a place that needs work. The graduation rates in almost any urban area in any state will be lower than that of the rural or suburban areas.

to me, it doesn't get any simpler than this. ohio's schools have been declared unconstitutional twice in a court of law, and stand as such today. it's a funding issue, and we all know more money = better schools. ohio's appalachian areas as well as its urban areas are averaging a poverty rate of 30% and worse, but the suburbs hold some of the nation's finest schools. it's really sad.

cle440,
i'm blanking on the year (2003?) that all three c's were in the top 10 big districts for various forms of ineptitude, particularly grad rates.

[mrspink]

I agree, it is all about money and funding. The state has issued funding for schools that are in desperate need of assistance, but the issue is that there is not enough money coming in to continue the upkeep of the buildings, technologies or supplies.

And what about teacher's salaries? Let's not even go there. That is a whole seperate issue in itself. Teachers in many of these urban schools have to go out and purchase their own classroom supplies, on an already disgraceful salary. That is another reason urban schools are not as successful. Teachers cannot AFFORD to teach in a setting where they are having to purchase classroom materials, it is not that they do not WANT to teach there but they have car payments, house payments/rent, groceries just like any other person and having to buy classroom supplies EVERY YEAR really adds up.

Whoa...sorry to get on that tanget!

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by mrspink

I agree, it is all about money and funding. And maybe a LOT more PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT, perhaps...
And what about teacher's salaries? Let's not even go there. That is a whole seperate issue in itself. Teachers in many of these urban schools have to go out and purchase their own classroom supplies, on an already disgraceful salary. Teachers in ALL districts, rich AND poor buy classroom supplies out of their own pocket. My wife, who teaches in a South Dayton suburb does. That is another reason urban schools are not as successful. Teachers cannot AFFORD to teach in a setting where they are having to purchase classroom materials, it is not that they do not WANT to teach there but they have car payments, house payments/rent, groceries just like any other person and having to buy classroom supplies EVERY YEAR really adds up.

Whoa...sorry to get on that tanget!

I believe that adequate funding DOES help (if spent wisely. And it isn't always the case, especially in large cities). Hillside, you're also correct; our state funding of schools er, the lack thereof, is criminal...

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

I believe that adequate funding DOES help (if spent wisely. And it isn't always the case, especially in large cities). Hillside, you're also correct; our state funding of schools er, the lack thereof, is criminal...

The key is "if spent wisely," way too much overhead in Ohio schools. Needs to be consolidation of school districts in rural areas, eliminate many of the unneeded superintendents, high-paying admin. jobs and get back to focusing on teaching the students. I've used this example in another forum, but the fact that Stark County (about 380k people) has 17 different school districts is crazy. I compared it to Richland County (Columbia, SC - approx. 358k people) and we have 2 districts and 1 shared w/another county. Hence, we have 14 less superintendents (at about 200,000/yr = $2.8 million in savings alone serving just under 50,000 students. There is too much sticking to the 'status quo' in Ohio schools. Schools like East Canton, where the entire enrollment for K-12 is maybe 1,000 students - the middle school my wife teaches at here alone has 1,300, and it is one of 6 in the district! Stark County could easily consolidate into 3 or 4 districts, but it will be a matter of communities being willing to unite.

The bottom line is, until school districts begin to merge and look for more ways than just slashing instructional dollars to meet the budget, people will continue to vote down school levies and the state of schools in the state will continue to worsen.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

to me, it doesn't get any simpler than this. ohio's schools have been declared unconstitutional twice in a court of law, and stand as such today. it's a funding issue, and we all know more money = better schools. ohio's appalachian areas as well as its urban areas are averaging a poverty rate of 30% and worse, but the suburbs hold some of the nation's finest schools. it's really sad.

cle440,
i'm blanking on the year (2003?) that all three c's were in the top 10 big districts for various forms of ineptitude, particularly grad rates.

I agree with the rest of your post, but where did you come up with the figures that the "average" poverty rate in Ohios urban areas is 30%? Youngstown and Cleveland TOP the list with poverty rates near 30%. Almost all the other urban areas are well below that.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I agree with the rest of your post, but where did you come up with the figures that the "average" poverty rate in Ohios urban areas is 30%? Youngstown and Cleveland TOP the list with poverty rates near 30%. Almost all the other urban areas are well below that.

30% is a realistic round figure, think about it. if they don't know how many people are living in a city, do they really know how many people live in poverty? remember, we're talking about cleveland, canton, youngstown, lorain, dayton, columbus, toledo, akron and cincinnati. after reading that list, does 30% sound unrealistic?

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

30% is a realistic round figure, think about it. if they don't know how many people are living in a city, do they really know how many people live in poverty? remember, we're talking about cleveland, canton, youngstown, lorain, dayton, columbus, toledo, akron and cincinnati. after reading that list, does 30% sound unrealistic?

Then it would be the same for other places outside of Ohio too, but all we can really go off of is the figures they give us to be accurate at all. Also there are many other urban areas besides the ones you listed. I guess its kind of hard to define urban.

I would include: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Canton, Youngstown, Springfield, Lorain, Elyria, Hamilton, Middletown, Lima, and Warren just to start out. There are also many other smaller cities especially around Cleveland that I would consider urban. To be more realistic I would say the average poverty rate in the urban areas that Im talking about is around 18%-22%.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC

The key is "if spent wisely," way too much overhead in Ohio schools. Needs to be consolidation of school districts in rural areas, eliminate many of the unneeded superintendents, high-paying admin. jobs and get back to focusing on teaching the students. I've used this example in another forum, but the fact that Stark County (about 380k people) has 17 different school districts is crazy. I compared it to Richland County (Columbia, SC - approx. 358k people) and we have 2 districts and 1 shared w/another county. Hence, we have 14 less superintendents (at about 200,000/yr = $2.8 million in savings alone serving just under 50,000 students. There is too much sticking to the 'status quo' in Ohio schools. Schools like East Canton, where the entire enrollment for K-12 is maybe 1,000 students - the middle school my wife teaches at here alone has 1,300, and it is one of 6 in the district! Stark County could easily consolidate into 3 or 4 districts, but it will be a matter of communities being willing to unite.

The bottom line is, until school districts begin to merge and look for more ways than just slashing instructional dollars to meet the budget, people will continue to vote down school levies and the state of schools in the state will continue to worsen.

Excellent post, BuckeyeinSC! I guess it takes other members to open one's eyes... The only place I've ever lived in OH is our city/township on the South side of Dayton. And I'm basing my beliefs on that. I agree that Ohio's school districts should be consolidated down to a far smaller number than we have now. And I can see where it makes a lot of sense, especially in the more rural counties. But my fear is that we live in one of the state's better districts. I don't want us to be lumped in with other district(s) that don't perform as well as ours does. (Especially since No Child Left Behind (or much of it, anyway) has become such a misguided policy. And, yes, I see things that could be changed even in my district, fiscally speaking.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Then it would be the same for other places outside of Ohio too, but all we can really go off of is the figures they give us to be accurate at all. Also there are many other urban areas besides the ones you listed. I guess its kind of hard to define urban.

I would include: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Canton, Youngstown, Springfield, Lorain, Elyria, Hamilton, Middletown, Lima, and Warren just to start out. There are also many other smaller cities especially around Cleveland that I would consider urban. To be more realistic I would say the average poverty rate in the urban areas that Im talking about is around 18%-22%.

i just named a few to start...the point is that the poverty issue is a statewide issue, as are the school districts of these cities. 30% is NOT a bad estimate if you look at the numbers.