Dayton+Cincinnati=Good? (Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo: move, metro, business)

[WeSoHood]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

^ You ahev to take what you have. If there was not a lake. Cleveland would't be as dense as it is. Hills and flood plains are counted in the Cincinnati metro numbers. You can't just build on slops and where water can raise and flood.

Someone mentioned Cleveland is more urban than seattle. That's a flat out lie. There is wilderness and mountains to the west of that place and a bay and ocean to the east. So it can only build linearly.

Uh.. i'm sorry but this post brings absolutely no value to this thread.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

^ You ahev to take what you have. If there was not a lake. Cleveland would't be as dense as it is. Hills and flood plains are counted in the Cincinnati metro numbers. You can't just build on slops and where water can raise and flood.

Someone mentioned Cleveland is more urban than seattle. That's a flat out lie. There is wilderness and mountains to the west of that place and a bay and ocean to the east. So it can only build linearly.

1. There is a lake, so Cleveland is denser. No point in living in fantasy land, or "what if..." land.

2. The Cleveland metro contains many very large industrial areas, and a huge national park, that alone cancels out "hills and flood plains" or anything else you want to add from the Cincinnati area that could take up land or keep it less dense overall. Not to mention all the other stuff, Cleveland contains a good amount of hills on the East and south sides of the metro area.

3. The Cleveland area is much denser than the Seattle area in general terms in population density (about twice to be exact). Factoring in the hills and mountains and what not, Seattle's is probably slightly more dense than Cleveland's though, although Im not positive on that. I would agree that city of Seattle is more urban than Cleveland though.

[Cincy-Rise]

City-Data peeps, this is starting to get silly. I think we all covered as much as there is to cover. lol

[Hey_Hey]

Originally Posted by WeSoHood

Well for the last thing you stated - Cincy has a metro area MUCH larger than Clevelands.. so I don't get your argument? Can you clarify? Atleast look up facts before you ramble stuff off. Cincy has a much larger area (metro) than Cleveland - yet somehow if Clevelands metro area is bigger it is someone unfair?? And 1.5 hours from Cleveland isn't really NE Ohio... that's getting close to Columbus. Heck, Canton is 45 minutes from Cleveland. Akron is 25 minutes, and Youngstown is 45 minutes... the rest is useless as they don't represent large populations of people. Kind of funny you mention Atlanta - when their MSA makes up almost half of Georgia.. yet once again if we bring up NE Ohio being one MSA, it's too large.. the hypocrisy is sickening. And last time I checked Northern Kentucky IS included in Cincys MSA..

The reason Cincy has a larger metro area than Cleveland is because that's what the commuter patterns show. The guidelines that the government uses to determine MSAs is based on commuting patterns and economic connectivity between an area and nearby primary city. Distance really plays a secondary role when it comes to defining which counties belong to an MSA. For whatever reason people travel further to get into Cincy than they do to get into Cleveland. It likely has to do with the Lake. Cleveland had to cram its population into a half-circle instead of a full circle around downtown like most cities. Cincy literally has twice the land area within a 10 mile radius of downtown when compared to Cleveland. That has resulted in Cincy taking up a much larger land area for a comparable population base.

Again, Atlanta is the same way. Cities an hour from downtown Atlanta serve as bedrooms communities for people who travel there for work. That doesn't happen in Cleveland. For that to happen in Cleveland cities like Sandusky and Conneaut and Mansfield would have to serve as bedroom communities. The result is that in Atlanta communities an hour from downtown are inextricably linked to the city whereas cities an hour from downtown Cleveland are not linked that strongly to the city.

I understand some NKY counties are included, but not all NKY counties are. Again, if you are going to include of all NE Ohio then you would have to include all of NKY with Cincy.

Originally Posted by WeSoHood

I just honestly don't understand the arguments people post on here with no logic or thought out discussion. It's just rambling of false facts and biasm. And btw - where did you go in Cleveland? Most likely you saw a depressed city because you visited depressed areas. Go to Rocky River, Westlake, Avon Lake, Avon, Medina (ugh I do hate Medina though myself), Strongsville, Chagrin Falls, Independent, Brecksville, Shaker Hts, Beachwood, Seven Hills, Pepper Pike, etc and tell me it's "depressing"... I mean you are from Toledo - one city I can't even bare because it's so depressing and boring.

Trust me when I say that Toledo is depressing as well. Most of northern Ohio is. I was specifically speaking of the city of Cleveland when I was discussing the depressing factor. It's amazing, and sad, how many shells of former buildings are just sitting around and how much abject poverty there is. The sububs were nice, but to be honest they looked very similar to neighborhoods in Toledo. While Cleveland has more and larger inner-ring suburbs than Toledo the neighborhoods and houses in Avon Lake and Rocky River, and Mayfield Heights are very similar to Rossford, Ottawa Hills, and Maumee in Toledo. I typically don't make judgements about a city based on the burbs. I like to see what the actual city is like.

Originally Posted by WeSoHood

This forum is filled with people who have some agenda against Cleveland.. it's almost laughable. It reminds me of the whole US hating OSU except Ohioans. Same thing in Ohio with Cleveland.

More likely Clevelanders' perceptions of the city are vastly above that of other ohioans. Therefore, when other Ohioans state their views it blows a typical Clevelander out of the water because it is so much less optimistic than their own view.

[1watertiger]

vision-quest, whats to argue about columbus ? its by far the smallest csa metro out of the 3-c's , that includes absurd cities being counted in the c-bus metro (ie-marion,chillicothe,ross county). columbus doesnt even have a complete inner-ring of suburbs(never will imo).

[Hey_Hey]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

vision-quest, whats to argue about columbus ? its by far the smallest csa metro out of the 3-c's , that includes absurd cities being counted in the c-bus metro (ie-marion,chillicothe,ross county). columbus doesnt even have a complete inner-ring of suburbs(never will imo).

I love Columbus, but I have to agree with that assessment. Cleveland and Cincy are definitely more metropolitan (although more metropolitan does not always eqate to better).

[Traveler87]

Oh god, the Cleveland/Cincy thing still. I haven't missed much have I?

[sunnysunnyside]

Not to dig up the thread but Truckee is in California, not Nevada!

[JefferyT]

^
but it's close!

[WeSoHood]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

Again, Atlanta is the same way. Cities an hour from downtown Atlanta serve as bedrooms communities for people who travel there for work. That doesn't happen in Cleveland. For that to happen in Cleveland cities like Sandusky and Conneaut and Mansfield would have to serve as bedroom communities. The result is that in Atlanta communities an hour from downtown are inextricably linked to the city whereas cities an hour from downtown Cleveland are not linked that strongly to the city.
\

.

Err.. Stop. I don't get this argument. If you are an hour away from Cleveland.. of course you aren't going to Cleveland for a business meeting! And hour west and you are in Toledo's metro area.. heck, could be Detroits! An hour south, you are in Canton. An hour east.. well, nothing is out there An hour southeast, you are in Youngstown.

Everything you stated is a direct result of Atlanta not having many major cities around them. Within 2 hours from Cleveland you have about 6-7 major cities. Toledo, Detroit, Akron, Columbus, Youngstown, Erie, Canton, etc are anywhere from 25 min to 2 1/2 hr drive from Cleveland. From Atlanta... how many cities are within that vicinity?