Dayton+Cincinnati=Good? (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown: home, buying, college)

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

All I have to say is that is ridiculous. Driving from Indianapolis to Downtown Cincinnati is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Whether its true or not thats beside the point. Why? Even in the Southeast area of Indianapolis thats still at the very least a 1 hour 30 minute drive. Im not saying its not true, Im saying if it is those people must not be that intelligent. If you work in Cincinnati why wouldnt you move around it rather than driving 2 hours everyday to and from work.

I know that Cincinnati and Dayton are somewhat connected but the simple fact is that they are 60 miles apart and in between them is nothing but very low density suburbs in a small line around 75. They are growing together though. If you look at Dayton theres virtually nothing East, North, or West of the city. Especially west, it literally goes from Dayton right into cornfields. All the development is happening North of Cincinnati and South of Dayton. Also, Dayton and Columbus arent connected at all and neither are Springfield and Columbus or really even Springfield and Dayton.

most outer ring burbs are low density.

if you have a well paying job that entails travel with a company stipend, it's not out of the ordinary.

thin lines become thick lines.

what does dayton's northern and western sprawl have to do with the merging in the middle?

[The Don]

Unless we get some really effective leadership, a lot of green farm land between Cincinnati and Dayton will have been sacrificed for nothing.

Larger population basis can mean a better way of life for the community -- better schools (University Level), more cultural attractions, better medical facilites and, yes even better sports teams (no more "small market" excuses).

The problem is, at least from a Cincinnati perspective, our leadership is too busy navel-gazing to look at the bigger picture.

Example: it has been discussed in this thread that a number of people commute between their homes Dayton (suburbs) and jobs in Cincinnati (suburbs); my daughter is doing just the opposite. That being true, where are the plans for a high speed mass transit system between the two cities?

It was easier to find public transit between the two cities when I was growing up 50 years ago.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Every city does, but Dayton being so close doesn't help. I'm sure a lot of residents can't even tell you which county belongs to what city.

Cincinnati: Hamilton Co.
Dayton: Montgomery Co.

Note to Hillside: The words "urbanity" and "urban" have NOTHING to do with each other; look it up...

[MittenDweller82]

Originally Posted by Daytonnatian

In 2010, according to the government census bureau, Dayton and Cincinnati's MSAs will merge. The merge will, on paper, create more population and industry for both Cincinnati and Dayton, and it will also form our country 15th largest metro area, I think, putting us ahead of Cleveland . But, do you think this will be beneficial or harmful?

America's Fastest-Dying Cities - Forbes.com

I would think that the loss of people seen in the region will affect the Dayton cinci area more severely until later than 2010....most Midwest larger cities will not emerge until 2015 when they can escape from manufacturing based economies.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

Cincinnati: Hamilton Co.
Dayton: Montgomery Co.

Note to Hillside: The words "urbanity" and "urban" have NOTHING to do with each other; look it up...

note to crew chief - if you're going to jab at somebody, come correct.

urbanity is a loosely defined ideal of social interaction, which is directly linked to the personality of a city, and often reflected in more physical elements of society, such as layout and housing.

[JefferyT]

The merger is based on commuting patterns, and the key here are Butler and Warren counties, which are becoming employment centers as well as places to live. So there is going to be a lot of cross-commuting going on.

I guess its a good thing if you are in real estate and land development. In terms of population gain, or net in-migration, Warren and Butler are getting lots of people from Cincinnati and Dayton (Hamilton and Montgomery counties).

[JefferyT]

know that Cincinnati and Dayton are somewhat connected but the simple fact is that they are 60 miles apart and in between them is nothing but very low density suburbs in a small line around 75. They are growing together though.

What's not evident unless yr familiar with this area is that the development here has a string of older factory towns along the river valley between Dayton and Cincy. Two of these, Hamilton and Middletown, are quite large, equivilant to Anderson or maybe Muncie. There were smaller industrial towns between, too, like Franklin, and country villages, like Monroe and Mason, and the couty seat town of Lebanaon.

So the developent between the Dayton and Cincy was an expansion of this industrial valley via postwar suburbia and industrial & office parks near the interstate. The interstate moved the development axis away from the river valley towns and railroads. Beyond that there is a more generalized field or carpet of sprawl at a pretty low density, which is being filled with subdivisions.

If you look at Dayton theres virtually nothing East, North, or West of the city. Especially west, it literally goes from Dayton right into cornfields. All the development is happening North of Cincinnati and South of Dayton. Also, Dayton and Columbus arent connected at all and neither are Springfield and Columbus or really even Springfield and Dayton.

This valley corridor factory town/postwar interstate axis extends north of Dayton, into Tipp City, Troy, and Piqua. Dayton is tied more to the east into Greene County, which is really just an extension of suburban Dayton, fairly intensely developed in the western half. The county seat, Xenia, is essentially a suburb of Dayton, and has been since the 1920s, when there was passenger electric rail service there.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Does anyone have a link to a good primer on how the MSA and CSA definitions are determined? The stuff I read on the Census Bureau is vague, and it seems like there is room for political manipulation.

Here in Portland, our CMSA with Salem was cut off after 2000 so now we are separate again. It didn't make sense to me at the time given the large number of commuters from Marion County, but then again, Oregon has urban growth boundaries around all of their cities over a certain size, so we (theoretically) tend to redevelop rather than sprawl out into connecting metros.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by hillside

note to crew chief - if you're going to jab at somebody, come correct.

urbanity is a loosely defined ideal of social interaction, which is directly linked to the personality of a city, and often reflected in more physical elements of society, such as layout and housing.

My sincere apologies; the second definition in my Random House College Dictionary is consistent with yours; mea culpa

[BelieveInCleve]

If they are going to put Cincinnati and Dayton into one metro area, than I think its about time they do the same with Akron. I also find it ridiculous that Canton isnt even included in the Akron metro or even the CSA of Cleveland/Akron. Cleveland and Akron are very connected and Akron and Canton are very connected. I feel at the very least either Cleveland and Akron should be in the same metro, or Akron and Canton should.

Its already obvious that they are connected, but for some examples. The old Cavs arena was in between Cleveland and Akron since the two were already connected and so that it would be easier for people to travel from both immediate areas. They also have detailed forecasts for both Cleveland and Akron/Canton because they have viewers from both. Also, the Cleveland State and Akron college merger. Also there is the Akron/Canton airport which speaks for itself how connected they are. I personally feel that at least 2 of them should be in the same metro, if not all three. And all of them should be in the same CSA. With Cleveland continuing to grow out and getting longer commutes the area is even more connected. This would make our CSA population near 3.5 million, and it would either make the Cleveland/Akron metro 2.9 million or the Akron/Canton metro 1.2 million.