Dayton+Cincinnati=Good? (Cleveland, Lakewood, Brooklyn: apartment complexes, houses, live)

[BelieveInCleve]

The only reason why hillside thinks that Cincinnati is more urban or denser is because a small area of the city that has row houses and he thinks that automatically makes it denser and more urban. Although he said himself that the entire OTR neighborhood was quote on quote "95% abandoned"...Those OTR type row houses barely account for 1/6 the total land area of Cincinnati, Let me remind you thats only a small area in the city of Cincinnati, no area in SW Ohio outside that area is even like that.

Go look at the "average" neighborhood in Cincinnati and then the average neighborhood in Cleveland and you will see very clearly that Cleveland is more dense. There is many areas with duplex multi-family houses 15 feet apart as far as you can see. Saying an area is "more urban" is controversial, there is a lot of factors to consider. Its already known that NE Ohio as a whole is a lot denser than SW Ohio and any of the other areas in Ohio, its also known that Cleveland is more dense than Cincinnati. Other than what I already mentioned about what hillside thought, I couldnt seriously think of 1 reason how Cincinnati is more urban than Cleveland or how SW Ohio is more urban than NE Ohio. Not one.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Northeast Ohio is not shrinking. The only areas that are actually losing population are the immediate Cleveland and Youngstown metros (mostly due to the main county of each area). All the areas further out and the Akron metro area are actually gaining population. If you divided Ohio up into 5 areas, NE, NW, SE, SW, and Central, Northeast Ohio would actually have near 5.2 million people. http://www.ohiolodgingrentals.com/im...io_regions.jpg add those counties up, by the most recent reliable numbers its over 5.2 million.

NE Ohio is also the densest and most urban overall, thats a fact. Just because some areas in Cincinnati "look" denser because of the housing styles doesnt mean they are. Cleveland is about 5,600/sq mile and Cincinnati is 4,200/sq mile. Thats a fact. You can use excuses like the hills, etc. but the bottomline is that Cleveland is denser and NE Ohio is the densest and most urban area in Ohio.

cleveland is a bedroom city. the city has tree lined streets and small-medium sized front lawns. the allure of cleveland was that it was a place you could find a steady job that paid enough to dream about owning a spacious home or decent-sized duplex. cleveland was the new american dream for the 20th century. in the 19th century when cincinnati boomed, the dream was to live in walkable, self-sustaining neighborhoods that captured the urban essence of western europe. you cannot tell me that the urban qualities of cincinnati (concrete, brick, not many trees in front of houses, units per-structure, traffic, the inner ring that looks like the city of cleveland) is lesser than that of cleveland.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

cleveland is a bedroom city. the city has tree lined streets and small-medium sized front lawns. the allure of cleveland was that it was a place you could find a steady job that paid enough to dream about owning a spacious home or decent-sized duplex. cleveland was the new american dream for the 20th century. in the 19th century when cincinnati boomed, the dream was to live in walkable, self-sustaining neighborhoods that captured the urban essence of western europe. you cannot tell me that the urban qualities of cincinnati (concrete, brick, not many trees in front of houses, units per-structure, traffic, the inner ring that looks like the city of cleveland) is lesser than that of cleveland.

The area that your describing in Cincinnati is only a very small part of the total land area. Thats like me describing Little Italy in Cleveland and using that as a basis for all the residential areas in the city of Cleveland. Cincinnati takes up 78 sq miles, the urban row house areas take up a small portion of that. People act like Cincinnati is only Downtown and OTR (and a few other small areas). Most of Cincinnatis residential areas are made up of low-density housing, mostly wood-frame with some brick, single family units with large yards (for a city) and a good amount of spacing in between the houses. Similar to more southern, historic, low density suburban areas.

These are pictures of Cleveland neighborhoods that I was talking about:
ClvGlenville1
ClvGlenville3
ClvGlenville2
Cleveland13
fairfax 025
WestBlvd27
OC16

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

The area that your describing in Cincinnati is only a very small part of the total land area. Thats like me describing Little Italy in Cleveland and using that as a basis for all the residential areas in the city of Cleveland. Cincinnati takes up 78 sq miles, the urban row house areas take up a small portion of that. People act like Cincinnati is only Downtown and OTR (and a few other small areas). Most of Cincinnatis residential areas are made up of low-density housing, mostly wood-frame with some brick, single family units with large yards (for a city) and a good amount of spacing in between the houses. Similar to more southern, historic, low density suburban areas.

These are pictures of Cleveland neighborhoods that I was talking about:
ClvGlenville1
ClvGlenville3
ClvGlenville2
Cleveland13
fairfax 025
WestBlvd27
OC16

those pics are exactly what i described. single family/duplexes with small yards. lol

cincinnati is NOT a low density city. i don't know why you suggest such. also, covington and newport are an urban continuation of cincinnati.

cincinnati is full of rowhouses and townhouses. it's not just otr, but the west end, fairmount, price hill, northside, walnut hills, mt. auburn, corryville...by your math, if 1/6 of cincinnati was rowhouses, that would be 13 sq miles. that's a lot. baltimore, st. louis and pittsburgh aren't all rowhouses either, though baltimore has many more than cincinnati.

overarching question - how many rowhouses/townhouses does cleveland have?

all across the city...

http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FCorryvilleℑ=Corryville6.jpg&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FCorryvilleℑ=Corryville13.jpg&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FLower+Price+Hillℑ=CincinnatiNovember25 .jpg&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FLower+Price+Hillℑ=CincinnatiNovember21 .jpg&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FMount+Adamsℑ=06CincinnatiJuly9.jpg&p=* full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FMount+Adamsℑ=MtAdams12.jpg&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FMount+Auburn%2FAuburnℑ=Cincinnati47.jp g&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FWalnut+Hills%2FEdgecliffℑ=06Cincinnati August3.jpg&p=*full-image
http://www.urbanohio.com/gallery/index.php?album=Southwest+Ohio%2FCincinnati%2FNeig hborhoods%2FSedamsvilleℑ=CincinnatiNovember59.jpg& p=*full-image

[WeSoHood]

Cinci isn't denser so that's a stupid argument. 4,200 people per square mile isn't dense. Cleveland is 6,200 people per square mile. All it takes is a simple google search.. not a whole freakin' argument.

Who cares about townhouses or rowhouses... Cleveland is denser... by about 2,000 people per square mile.

For Cle440 - Rocky River is the same density as Cinci, to get an understanding. And I don't consider Rocky River that densely populated.

These might be the stupidest arguments EVER.

And PS hillside: Those houses in Glenville almost are all comprised of 2 or 3 families, rarely single family homes (atleast pictured).. I still don't get what you are debating. Cleveland is more dense.

[BelieveInCleve]

Hillside, I thought you were from Avondale, but have you ever been to Cincinnati?

People show what they want to show and then try to give the impression that it reflects what Cincinnati is, no it doesnt. The only area of Cincinnati thats really like that is around Downtown/OTR and in the basin. Theres very few other areas like that. And that 1/6 was just an estimate, thats nothing for a city thats supposed to be nearly all row houses as some would like to give the impression. Ive been to Philly and Baltimore which are almost entirely row houses or town houses, Ive also been to NYC and a lot of those cities on the East Coast, Cincinnati is nothing like that except that small area. Its a very steep contrast of urbanism. Pretty much the entire city farther than three miles from downtown is what I described "low-density housing, mostly wood-frame with some brick, single family units with large yards (for a city) and a good amount of spacing in between the houses. Similar to more southern, historic, low density suburban areas." If you dont agree with that, I dont know what city your talking about. Im not saying Cincinnati is not dense at all, but the impression that some give off to people who dont know about it is very incorrect and misleading.

In Cleveland there are a lot of brick apartments and apartment buildings/high rises rather than row houses. Most of the townhouses are new. Most of Clevelands housing type is wood frame, medium density housing, mostly multi-family. Clevelands trademark is dense duplexes as I showed with 2-4 families in each, and understand those dense housing types go to the edge of the city and into a lot of the suburbs, which are also very dense. Just look at Euclid, Lakewood, Newburgh Hts., Brooklyn, etc.

[Briolat21]

Originally Posted by the_pines

And quite frankly, Cincinnati has never had the influence or power to absorb Dayton. Maybe a small town like Middletown, but theres no way Cincinnati has never had any great amount of influence on Daytonian's. Most Daytonian's avoid Cincinnati. Or periodically go there for the Fourth of July fireworks show, or Kings Island, or a sports game. That's about it. Cincinnati is very alien to some Daytonian's.

I think they're talking about the metro areas running into one another, I don't think they're talking about Cinci absorbing Dayton or vice versa.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Cle440

The only reason why hillside thinks that Cincinnati is more urban or denser is because a small area of the city that has row houses

One thing that I noticed is Cleveland's first-ring suburbs are similar to Cincinnati's 4th and 5th ring suburbs. Go to google earth and look at Norwood's streetview. Very similar, but without the duck-bill fronts.

I've heard it from my family from Brooklyn, one of ESPN's Monday Night football announcers from NY, and just about anybody that knows NYC, Cincinnati resembles Brooklyn like a twin. I especially think it looks like NYC's Lower East Side.

Walnut Hills, OTR, West End, Mt. Auburn, Clifton, Price Hill, and Northside all contain Italianate/row house architecture... you probably thought only OTR has it, didn't you? Most out-of-towners assume this.

If I'm not mistaken, we have the largest collection of Italianate in the US still standing.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Cle440

The area that your describing in Cincinnati is only a very small part of the total land area. Thats like me describing Little Italy in Cleveland and using that as a basis for all the residential areas in the city of Cleveland. Cincinnati takes up 78 sq miles, the urban row house areas take up a small portion of that. People act like Cincinnati is only Downtown and OTR (and a few other small areas). Most of Cincinnatis residential areas are made up of low-density housing, mostly wood-frame with some brick, single family units with large yards (for a city) and a good amount of spacing in between the houses. Similar to more southern, historic, low density suburban areas.

These are pictures of Cleveland neighborhoods that I was talking about:
ClvGlenville1
ClvGlenville3
ClvGlenville2
Cleveland13
fairfax 025
WestBlvd27
OC16

Yep! Those are the houses I was referring to! Sorry, just read this post.


One thing you have to keep in mind, Cincinnati doesn't count Norwood's population, but Norwood is in the middle of Cincinnati's city limits.

You wanna talk about dense, Norwood has 7,000 people per sq. mile. I don't thing there is anything in the state of OH more dense than Norwood? Can anyone thing of anything more dense than 7,000 ppl/sq mi?

[WeSoHood]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Yep! Those are the houses I was referring to! Sorry, just read this post.


One thing you have to keep in mind, Cincinnati doesn't count Norwood's population, but Norwood is in the middle of Cincinnati's city limits.

You wanna talk about dense, Norwood has 7,000 people per sq. mile. I don't thing there is anything in the state of OH more dense than Norwood? Can anyone thing of anything more dense than 7,000 ppl/sq mi?

Yes, Lakewood is over 10,200 per square mile. University Heights is 7,700 and East Cleveland is 8,700 people per square mile... For other Cleveland area cities - Euclid is 5,000, Rocky River 4,300, Shaker Heights 4,600, Cleveland Hts 6,600, Garfield 4,200, South Euclid 5,000, Maple Hts 5,000. Clevleand (6,200 ppl/sq mi) is and still has the most densely population suburbs.