Ohio Cities and Metros New Crime Rankings (Columbus, Cleveland: high crime, neighborhoods)

[1watertiger]

buckeye89, what suburbs count in the columbus population of 750k+ ??

[Buckeye 89]

Every Suburb

and


Since the city has started all if this annexation, By the book the city of Columbus stretches into Union, Licking and Delaware counties. So when they do the population, Those count as Columbus residents too.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by JR_C

How does being "in the city limits" make an area's crime rate increase? I've read this kind of idea before, on different sites. How does an imaginary line affect crime?

Thats pretty simple to explain. When the areas are considered in the city limits, the crime rate increases most of the time. It actually can be just because of an imaginary line, but for a lot of reasons. It goes both ways though, some areas can improve depending on circumstances.

Lets use Cleveland for an example (although Clevelands in a lot worse shape than Columbus). Its pretty easy to tell the difference when your in Cleveland, and when your in a bordering suburb (well...except East Cleveland). If Cleveland annexed Bratenahl or Shaker Heights, you better believe that they would start to go downhill very fast. Its because they would be considered in the city of Cleveland, have the same taxes, same bad schools (I guess that part doesnt apply to some of Columbus though), same bad police and fire services, the prices would drop. And just overall crime would increase, its pretty simple. Being part of the central city, even due to an imaginary line, can make a big difference than being a separate suburb.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by Buckeye 89

what you mean it wouldn't do that much, If Columbus didn't count all the suburbs population it would probably rank into the mid sized cities correct? This year Cleveland ranked 7th, Wouldn't that make Columbus rank somewhere in front of Clevleand.

You really have to get the numbers and stats for the old city limits, if they still provide those. I know they still check the crime rate of the old city limits of Indianapolis if you search for it, Columbus may do the same thing.

But I seriously doubt that Columbus would be ahead of Cleveland. Cleveland has 300k+ less people than Columbus now, 150 less sq miles, and actually has the same or more murders than Columbus on the average year. You can also say that about a lot of other crimes. If you just counted the old city limits of Columbus, a large amount of those murders and crimes wouldnt be counted anymore. So that means that its very unlikely that it would be anywhere around Clevelands crime rate. If its 43rd now, I would estimate it would be around the top 30 maybe. Of course thats just an estimate, but you get the point. Also, Columbus does not count "every suburb" in the city limits. And like I said, the reality is that Columbus takes up 220 sq miles and is the 43rd most dangerous city.

[Buckeye 89]

so what suburbs does or doesn't count then?



i don't see how Columbus annexed suburbs could not effect the crime statistics. that's the whole point of them doing it, is to make the city look better. it should be alarming to see the city even making these lists despite the city adding population.

[mrb69]

So how about someone looks at a map and get rid of the suburbian areas that shouldn't count for the cities population or size.

I myself can already can get rid 50k just on the northside.

I think everyone in this group knows how crime stats work so I shouldn't have to explain.

[BelieveInCleve]

You guys arent getting the point.

If you take all the recently annexed areas out of the city of Columbus to look at the crime of the old city limits, you also have to take every single crime that happened in those newly annexed areas out. You guys keep flip flopping on this. Ive heard you say that Columbus crime is spread out all over the city, and then I hear you now saying that its mostly in the old city limits in the central area. Which is it then?

The crime rate in the old city limits is obviously higher, but that doesnt take away that there is a good amount of crime even in the more newly annexed areas. You dont just take all of that new population out and use the same number of crimes as before. Your making it too obvious that your trying to make the city look worse than it is. Yes Columbus has a high crime rate (old city limits and new), but I can name many cities that are much worse. Buckeye89 said that the old city limits crime rate would rank worse than Cleveland..., its too obvious that your trying to make Columbus look worse than it is. Like I said before, theres no point living in "what if" land, the city of Columbus is 220 sq miles and is the 43rd most dangerous city. All of you that try to make Columbus look worse should be satisfied with that ranking, its not that good.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Thats pretty simple to explain. When the areas are considered in the city limits, the crime rate increases most of the time. It actually can be just because of an imaginary line, but for a lot of reasons. It goes both ways though, some areas can improve depending on circumstances.

Lets use Cleveland for an example (although Clevelands in a lot worse shape than Columbus). Its pretty easy to tell the difference when your in Cleveland, and when your in a bordering suburb (well...except East Cleveland). If Cleveland annexed Bratenahl or Shaker Heights, you better believe that they would start to go downhill very fast. Its because they would be considered in the city of Cleveland, have the same taxes, same bad schools (I guess that part doesnt apply to some of Columbus though), same bad police and fire services, the prices would drop. And just overall crime would increase, its pretty simple. Being part of the central city, even due to an imaginary line, can make a big difference than being a separate suburb.

So, it's mostly psychological. People don't want "center city" on their mailing address. They want to move away quickly, before their neighborhood gets "bad." So, they sell their house at a discount price to get it sold quickly. This opens the potential for renters, and so on.

You do have a point about police and fire. (I'm no expert, but schools are a different animal--I don't think district lines would change just because of annexation) But, the point of annexation is often to increase the city's tax base. This additional money allows them to provide better services. I don't buy the whole corruption idea. IMO, most cities have higher crime rates because their tax base has dwindled over the last 50 years as people left for the suburbs. So, not only do police and fire have less money to work with, they also have to deal with a higher concentration of poverty which often leads to higher crime.

[mrb69]

Originally Posted by Cle440

You guys arent getting the point.

If you take all the recently annexed areas out of the city of Columbus to look at the crime of the old city limits, you also have to take every single crime that happened in those newly annexed areas out. You guys keep flip flopping on this. Ive heard you say that Columbus crime is spread out all over the city, and then I hear you now saying that its mostly in the old city limits in the central area. Which is it then?

The crime rate in the old city limits is obviously higher, but that doesnt take away that there is a good amount of crime even in the more newly annexed areas. You dont just take all of that new population out and use the same number of crimes as before. Your making it too obvious that your trying to make the city look worse than it is. Yes Columbus has a high crime rate (old city limits and new), but I can name many cities that are much worse. Buckeye89 said that the old city limits crime rate would rank worse than Cleveland..., its too obvious that your trying to make Columbus look worse than it is. Like I said before, theres no point living in "what if" land, the city of Columbus is 220 sq miles and is the 43rd most dangerous city. All of you that try to make Columbus look worse should be satisfied with that ranking, its not that good.

Suburbs are newer areas which shouldn't count for parts of the inner-city.

About 90% of crime happens in the old areas of Columbus.

So if you get rid of 150k-200k and 3 or 4 murders that shoundn't belong then you get a Columbus with a population of 530,000 but still with the same crime numbers. Then you should get Columbus within the top 25 most dangerous cities in America.

Crime stats are ranked by how many 100,000 people will be murdered or get any other sort of crime. So if you have a Columbus with 530k then the murder, theft, shooting, break-in and every other kind of crime will make the stats go up from what we have right now. If you keep adding people then the stats will go down since most suburbs don't have alot of crime. Now I only say that because COLUMBUS IS ADDING ITS SUBURBS AS PART OF ITS INNER-CITY!!

I'm not trying to make the city look worse then it really is but why should we or anyone who wants to move here be lied to? Yes 43 is bad but thats not where we belong. WERE RANKED RIGHT BY CANTON in crime stats!! Who thinks Canton is as bad as the inner-city of Columbus?
We can't change the city too much right now but we can still tell people its no fairy tale land.

Also if you get rid of the 200k that doesn't belong then the 69% white will go down and the 24% black will go up.

Ohio's most dangerous cities:
1. Cleveland
2. Columbus
3. Dayton
4. Cincinati
5. Toldeo
6. Canton
7. Akron

[Buckeye 89]

Well said

I don't know why it's so hard to get through to CLE. He thinks he knows everything, And then when you lay the facts down right in front of him he rambles on

"oh it's obvious your trying to make the city worse"


why in the hell would i or anybody else do that? and the irony of him saying that, is every post he makes is about something bad in Cleveland (which he's not from). but oh boy. don't get it confused he's just trying to let the truth out about Cleveland