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Cincinnati has the natural beauty of the area going for it. Cleveland has a better nightlife. Cincinnati seems a tad less friendly, but still very friendly. Cleveland's skyline is taller but Cincinnati's has the better "effect". Both are extremely cheap to live in. Cleveland has better rapid transit and public trans. I call them even but I'd pick either over Columbus which really doesn't have much over either aside from economy.
Considering a lot of your other comments in other threads, you seem to have something personal against Columbus. It's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. It's fine it you prefer Cincy and Cleveland, but I really disagree with most of what you say.
Personally, I like the more progressive, liberal feel of Columbus. Both Cincy and Cleveland are older, and in Cincy's case, far more conservative. I also like that Columbus is one of the youngest cities in the nation, not just because of OSU, but because the economy is decent, especially for Ohio's cities. It has the best start-up environment of the 3. There was a thread on another site with photos of Columbus, probably one of the most comprehensive I have ever seen. Even I, as a native, was pleasantly surprised at how wonderful the housing was. It is far from all cookie-cutter suburbs, and certainly the suburban sprawl here is no different than in the other two cities. I guess when you live in a place, you don't see it, but I think Columbus has done a tremendous job at maintaining those historic neighborhoods that do exist. Columbus is the newest of the 3 in terms of overall development, and it does show in many ways, but even so, from everything I have seen, Columbus can and does compete architecturally with both Cleveland and Cincy. Geographically, Cincy wins. It's the only one with a decent amount of hills and scenery. As far as the downtown areas go... Cleveland has always looked old to me. You can tell the area has not seen much growth in recent decades, as most of the downtown buildings are from the 1960s and earlier. It looks dated, and not in the way that attracts people. Cleveland's biggest problem may be similar to some other Rust Belt cities in that it's too big for the number of people that actually live there. There's a lot that has to be rebuilt and it's going to be a long process. And it absolutely must turn around population trends. Cincy has a decent, compact downtown area that has improved in recent years, but the one thing that might hurt it is what everyone likes it for... geography. There's only so much room to grow. It can start building up, like other geographically restricted cities have done, but you might end up compromising some of the historical characteristics as well. Columbus has, by far, the least dense downtown area, but it also has the most room to grow without the vast amounts of urban decay. It can grow the easiest of the 3, and can basically invent itself in whatever way it wants.
I'd hardly say Columbus is more liberal than Cleveland, home of Kucinich.
Columbus just doesn't feel like a "real city". It doesn't have much aside from the Scioto in terms of natural features and what little there are of suburbs are all McMansion communities.
Don't get me wrong, Columbus is not my favorite city but it is nowhere near my least favorite. In fact, I'm quite fond of it but it just doesn't compare in terms of character.
In terms of competing architecturally though... Hardly!
I'd hardly say Columbus is more liberal than Cleveland, home of Kucinich.
Columbus just doesn't feel like a "real city". It doesn't have much aside from the Scioto in terms of natural features and what little there are of suburbs are all McMansion communities.
Don't get me wrong, Columbus is not my favorite city but it is nowhere near my least favorite. In fact, I'm quite fond of it but it just doesn't compare in terms of character.
In terms of competing architecturally though... Hardly!
I would label Kucinich as more an eccentric than a liberal. Progressive does not mean crazy. The overall Cleveland area is probably more liberal, but I'd say it's a toss up between the cities.
As far as geography, I already said Cincy wins that. Cleveland has the lake, but it's pretty flat and boring otherwise, same as Columbus, and Cleveland way underutilizes the lake anyway.
Not sure how Columbus doesn't feel like a real city. I've lived in a city of 25 million, so I kinda understand the whole city feel. Columbus has a city feel, and it seems to increase every year. I don't think that is lacking in any of the 3. There may be varying degrees, but they all still have it.
And your statement that Columbus is nothing but suburbs and McMansions is ridiculous. Saying something like that tells me you've never even bothered to come here, but then you say you're "quite fond of it." A little bit of contradiction there... and still not based on reality.
And yes, Columbus can compete architecturally. There would probably be very few examples of buildings in which aren't comparable or that you absolutely just couldn't find. This goes from the downtown areas to the far suburbs.
Considering a lot of your other comments in other threads, you seem to have something personal against Columbus. It's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. It's fine it you prefer Cincy and Cleveland, but I really disagree with most of what you say.
Personally, I like the more progressive, liberal feel of Columbus. Both Cincy and Cleveland are older, and in Cincy's case, far more conservative. I also like that Columbus is one of the youngest cities in the nation, not just because of OSU, but because the economy is decent, especially for Ohio's cities. It has the best start-up environment of the 3. There was a thread on another site with photos of Columbus, probably one of the most comprehensive I have ever seen. Even I, as a native, was pleasantly surprised at how wonderful the housing was. It is far from all cookie-cutter suburbs, and certainly the suburban sprawl here is no different than in the other two cities. I guess when you live in a place, you don't see it, but I think Columbus has done a tremendous job at maintaining those historic neighborhoods that do exist. Columbus is the newest of the 3 in terms of overall development, and it does show in many ways, but even so, from everything I have seen, Columbus can and does compete architecturally with both Cleveland and Cincy. Geographically, Cincy wins. It's the only one with a decent amount of hills and scenery. As far as the downtown areas go... Cleveland has always looked old to me. You can tell the area has not seen much growth in recent decades, as most of the downtown buildings are from the 1960s and earlier. It looks dated, and not in the way that attracts people. Cleveland's biggest problem may be similar to some other Rust Belt cities in that it's too big for the number of people that actually live there. There's a lot that has to be rebuilt and it's going to be a long process. And it absolutely must turn around population trends. Cincy has a decent, compact downtown area that has improved in recent years, but the one thing that might hurt it is what everyone likes it for... geography. There's only so much room to grow. It can start building up, like other geographically restricted cities have done, but you might end up compromising some of the historical characteristics as well. Columbus has, by far, the least dense downtown area, but it also has the most room to grow without the vast amounts of urban decay. It can grow the easiest of the 3, and can basically invent itself in whatever way it wants.
I would label Kucinich as more an eccentric than a liberal. Progressive does not mean crazy. The overall Cleveland area is probably more liberal, but I'd say it's a toss up between the cities.
As far as geography, I already said Cincy wins that. Cleveland has the lake, but it's pretty flat and boring otherwise, same as Columbus, and Cleveland way underutilizes the lake anyway.
Not sure how Columbus doesn't feel like a real city. I've lived in a city of 25 million, so I kinda understand the whole city feel. Columbus has a city feel, and it seems to increase every year. I don't think that is lacking in any of the 3. There may be varying degrees, but they all still have it.
And your statement that Columbus is nothing but suburbs and McMansions is ridiculous. Saying something like that tells me you've never even bothered to come here, but then you say you're "quite fond of it." A little bit of contradiction there... and still not based on reality.
And yes, Columbus can compete architecturally. There would probably be very few examples of buildings in which aren't comparable or that you absolutely just couldn't find. This goes from the downtown areas to the far suburbs.
I've been there. Believe me. I know German Village (which is one of the pros of the city) like the back of my hand and all of the areas around campus very well.
I said the suburbs were nothing but McMansions, not that it was nothing but suburbs and McMansions. The historic neighborhoods give it some flare, but those are small in number.
However I refuse to believe that one can find the same level of architectural diversity in Columbus as one finds in Cincinnati proper. That just blows my mind that anyone would think that. Hell, you have trouble finding that in even some of the oldest and largest cities in America.
In short, no, I'm not knocking your town. It's cool in its own right. It's not for me. It's not bad though.
jbcmh81, everything you mentioned is just your opinion.. tell me what columbus has that cleveland doesnt , and please dont mention buckeye football... world class museums? theatre? lake/beach/boating/jetski/parasailing? better food choice ? bars/restarants? ethnic neighborhoods? mass transit? metroparks? pro football? pro baseball? pro basketball? neighborhood/ethnic festivals? columbus will never reach the "major" status of cleveland.. and by the way, cleveland is booming with major construction projects compared to columbus, and the economies are pretty even now. and please tell me what is 5 miles in any direction from downtown columbus?
jbcmh81, everything you mentioned is just your opinion.. tell me what columbus has that cleveland doesnt , and please dont mention buckeye football... world class museums? theatre? lake/beach/boating/jetski/parasailing? better food choice ? bars/restarants? ethnic neighborhoods? mass transit? metroparks? pro football? pro baseball? pro basketball? neighborhood/ethnic festivals? columbus will never reach the "major" status of cleveland.. and by the way, cleveland is booming with major construction projects compared to columbus, and the economies are pretty even now. and please tell me what is 5 miles in any direction from downtown columbus?
Everything in this entire thread is an opinion, so why are you pointing out that what I'm saying is opinion as if all the other posts aren't? Of course I'm going to defend my city, just as you all obviously do for yours.
Personally, I don't think all comparisons between the 3 cities are fair. First, let's look at population.
So when looking at that, it's obvious that both Cincy and Cleveland peaked about 60 years ago in terms of people. In the case of Cleveland especially, it was one of the largest cities in the nation in 1950. It is not a surprise that it gained some amenities and attractions that the two others did not, and that it retains some of them still. Columbus' population now was 769,000 for the 2009 estimate, so even though it's been growing each year and has reached the highest it's ever been, it still has a ways to go before reaching Cleveland's historic population max. I suspect that some of the things that it lacks now that Cleveland may have will come by eventually, provided strong growth continues.
That said, Columbus has the best library system in the country. It has been consistently rated as the #1 or at least in the top 5 for the last decade+. Our zoo was rated the #1 in the country last year. Our science center, Cosi, was also rated #1.
Our museum is not very large, even with the recent expansion, so Cleveland probably wins this. We do have great theaters downtown with the Ohio and Southern. I actually think that Columbus has better food than Cleveland, though Cincy's is probably the best of the 3. Ethnic neighborhoods... not in the traditional sense of a specific China Town, but there are areas that have high concentrations of Hispanics or asians, Somalians, etc. In fact, I do believe that Columbus has the fastest growing asian and Hispanic populations of all 3 and the overall diversity is rapidly increasing.
Here are the latest diversity numbers for all 3 (2008) and the difference from the 2000 Census.
So Columbus has the highest % of whites, but also the highest % of asians. Both the % for asians and latinos should be close to or over 6% when the official 2010 numbers come out.
Mass transit... beyond the bus system, no. But that is not unusual for a city this size. Out of the 5 or 6 cities closest in population, not even half of them have mass transit. Again, though, that will change.
Metroparks... yes. There are 15 metroparks in the system with about 25,000 acres, including Battelle-Darby which contains the state and national scenic Darby Creek, one of the most pristine waterways in the state and nation. Columbus's entire western border is managed by the Big Darby Accord, which limits development. They also finished the new Scioto Audubon park just south of Columbus' downtown.
No pro football, but we do have pro hockey and soccer, something neither other city has. And we do have the best minor league baseball. The stadium was voted the best baseball stadium in the nation in 2009, and the Clippers won it all last year. And the Crew has went all the way as well. When's the last time the Browns did anything? Even the Cavs with Lebron couldn't do anything.
Yes, we have ethnic/neighborhood festivals. We had one of the largest latino festivals in the country, but it's been downsized the last few years because they had to move it from the riverfront when construction began on the Scioto Mile project. It'll most likely move back there when it's done. We also have the Italian Festival, Greek Festival, Aisan Festival, Juneteenth for African Americans, Gay Pride, which is the largest in the state, ComFest, etc.
Columbus will never reach the major status of Cleveland? Really? That's a pretty stupid thing to say, honestly. There is nothing to prevent Columbus from reaching or even surpassing Cleveland. I have seen the list of construction projects for Cleveland, and that's great and all, but I wouldn't say the city is booming. Booming implies growth, and you're just not growing. I put out my census population predictions, and had Cleveland's city limits growing slightly, but the more census results I see, the less confident I am about that. I don't think a single city so far that has shown population decline in the estimates has actually shown an increase instead. If anything, the estimates underestimated the losses. Even some cities that were showing increases ended up showing losses.
And what is 5 miles from downtown Columbus... more neighborhoods. You have to go out farther than that to reach open land. But doesn't that just imply that there is more sprawl in Cleveland? Columbus' MSA in area is the smallest of all 3.
As far as geography, I already said Cincy wins that. Cleveland has the lake, but it's pretty flat and boring otherwise, same as Columbus, and Cleveland way underutilizes the lake anyway.
Um, Cleveland is no Pittsburgh but it's a lot hillier than Columbus. There are several valleys that cut through the area. Also, the lakefront may be underutilized in the urban core but there is still good lake access when you get away from the city a little.
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