Cleveland vs. Cincinnati (Columbus, Lorain, Kent: university, taxes, professionals)

[Peregrine]

Personally I am a little tired of "Ohio infighting".
Yes I think Cleveland is the best town in Ohio but Columbus, Cincy.. heck even Toledo and Akron... have a lot to offer.
I don't dislike any part of Ohio.
We should be discussing what makes us all great.

[BelieveInCleve]

Coming from Cleveland I think amongst some people here, even myself sometimes, there's a little bit of an imaginary inferiority complex now, seeing as we were by far the largest population center in Ohio (city and metro/area) and by far the most important for about a century, now all of a sudden within the last few decades Columbus has passed us up in city population (mainly due to annexation, but the title remains), and Cincinnati has just passed us up in metro population (they do include twice the land area, but again the title remains). What is not arguable however is that we have been losing population for a long time while the other two have gained. Columbus and especially Cincinnati have both gained on us in importance as well, even passed us in some categories.

Despite not being considered "officially" the largest, when you look at the big picture which would be apples to apples city and metro or Combined metro, we are still by far the largest and offer the most compared to Cincinnati and Columbus. I can think of a few things in Cincinnati, but how many things does Columbus offer that Cleveland doesn't? I can think of many that Cleveland offers that Columbus doesn't, and even Cincinnati. The Lake for one is a natural geographic advantage and no matter how much Columbus and Cincinnati grow they will never have the lake, so we do have that going for us. We have Rivers, Parks, and Hills as well (although not comparable to Cincinnati especially on a hilly neighborhood level).

But honestly if they were in different states I think people would care/compare a lot less than they do, right now it's all about being the biggest/best in the state. Say if Cleveland/NE Ohio was included in PA, or Cincinnati area was in Kentucky, etc. We would care/compare about as much as we do vs Louisville, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and Detroit.

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by BelieveInCleve

Coming from Cleveland I think amongst some people here, even myself sometimes, there's a little bit of an imaginary inferiority complex now, seeing as we were by far the largest population center in Ohio (city and metro/area) and by far the most important for about a century, now all of a sudden within the last few decades Columbus has passed us up in city population (mainly due to annexation, but the title remains), and Cincinnati has just passed us up in metro population (they do include twice the land area, but again the title remains). What is not arguable however is that we have been losing population for a long time while the other two have gained. Columbus and especially Cincinnati have both gained on us in importance as well, even passed us in some categories.

Despite not being considered "officially" the largest, when you look at the big picture which would be apples to apples city and metro or Combined metro, we are still by far the largest and offer the most compared to Cincinnati and Columbus. I can think of a few things in Cincinnati, but how many things does Columbus offer that Cleveland doesn't? I can think of many that Cleveland offers that Columbus doesn't, and even Cincinnati. The Lake for one is a natural geographic advantage and no matter how much Columbus and Cincinnati grow they will never have the lake, so we do have that going for us. We have Rivers, Parks, and Hills as well (although not comparable to Cincinnati especially on a hilly neighborhood level).

But honestly if they were in different states I think people would care/compare a lot less than they do, right now it's all about being the biggest/best in the state. Say if Cleveland/NE Ohio was included in PA, or Cincinnati area was in Kentucky, etc. We would care/compare about as much as we do vs Louisville, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and Detroit.

Nothing against Cleveland, but the lake "advantage" isn't an adavntage when it's not utilized. Honestly, Cincinnati will have a better and more accessable waterfront next year after construction is finished. The riverfront park currently under construction will be the nicest urban park in Ohio; Combined with Sawyer Point, Cincy's waterfront will dwarf Clevelands, and it's only a river, not even a lake. Just an observation.

Cincinnati Riverfront Park - Let's Bring It--TOGETHER!

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by austiNati

Nothing against Cleveland, but the lake "advantage" isn't an adavntage when it's not utilized. Honestly, Cincinnati will have a better and more accessable waterfront next year after construction is finished. The riverfront park currently under construction will be the nicest urban park in Ohio; Combined with Sawyer Point, Cincy's waterfront will dwarf Clevelands, and it's only a river, not even a lake. Just an observation.

Cincinnati Riverfront Park - Let's Bring It--TOGETHER!

I agree that the lake isn't utilized as in being as connected to Cleveland, especially downtown, as it should be. But my point was that Lake Erie is there. For views, boating, fishing, jet skiis, even surfing, swimming etc. there are many real beaches in the Cleveland area. Nearly everything you can do on the Ocean shore you can do on Lake Erie, to some degree. Lake Erie also connects in some way to the other great lakes and the Atlantic Ocean.

The Ohio River at Cincinnati is like 1,500 ft across of water with a flow/current, only so much you can do on it. Lake Erie on the other hand is 65 miles across at Cleveland. Maybe a few main rivers in NE Ohio would be close to a fair comparison (except how long the Ohio river is and how much it connects, much more than the NE Ohio rivers combined).

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

I am just going to say this. Why can't all three cities be fantastic in their own right? Everyone is trying to compare them...why don't we bring out their contrasts. Thats why Ohio is dying...same old same old stuff. Our sixth biggest city, Dayton, is identifying itself as different and it is actually working. Its known as the "aerospace hub" now. They are creating a neighborhood downtown called Tech Town. Its just an example. I think that our cities need to explain what makes them unique and attractive and not focus on who has the best so much. They all have their qualities.

And if Dayton gets the space shuttle Atlantis (which is likely), it will have absolutely the single coolest thing in the state of Ohio - by far.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by austiNati

Nothing against Cleveland, but the lake "advantage" isn't an adavntage when it's not utilized. Honestly, Cincinnati will have a better and more accessable waterfront next year after construction is finished. The riverfront park currently under construction will be the nicest urban park in Ohio; Combined with Sawyer Point, Cincy's waterfront will dwarf Clevelands, and it's only a river, not even a lake. Just an observation.

Cincinnati Riverfront Park - Let's Bring It--TOGETHER!

Dwarf? Um, not quite. The Riverfront park is 45 acres. Cleveland's Lakefront State Park is about 420 acres. This doesn't even count the Inner Harbor, any of the museums, or the Browns' stadium (easily another 25 acres). As much as I agree that it could be better, it should be recognized that Cleveland's lakefront is fairly well utilized. If you want to see a poorly utilized lake front, head up to Buffalo.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

And if Dayton gets the space shuttle Atlantis (which is likely), it will have absolutely the single coolest thing in the state of Ohio - by far.

I don't know about it being the single coolest thing, but it would be pretty cool and fairly appropriate for Dayton to have.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by BelieveInCleve

Coming from Cleveland I think amongst some people here, even myself sometimes, there's a little bit of an imaginary inferiority complex now, seeing as we were by far the largest population center in Ohio (city and metro/area) and by far the most important for about a century, now all of a sudden within the last few decades Columbus has passed us up in city population (mainly due to annexation, but the title remains), and Cincinnati has just passed us up in metro population (they do include twice the land area, but again the title remains). What is not arguable however is that we have been losing population for a long time while the other two have gained. Columbus and especially Cincinnati have both gained on us in importance as well, even passed us in some categories.

Despite not being considered "officially" the largest, when you look at the big picture which would be apples to apples city and metro or Combined metro, we are still by far the largest and offer the most compared to Cincinnati and Columbus. I can think of a few things in Cincinnati, but how many things does Columbus offer that Cleveland doesn't? I can think of many that Cleveland offers that Columbus doesn't, and even Cincinnati. The Lake for one is a natural geographic advantage and no matter how much Columbus and Cincinnati grow they will never have the lake, so we do have that going for us. We have Rivers, Parks, and Hills as well (although not comparable to Cincinnati especially on a hilly neighborhood level).

But honestly if they were in different states I think people would care/compare a lot less than they do, right now it's all about being the biggest/best in the state. Say if Cleveland/NE Ohio was included in PA, or Cincinnati area was in Kentucky, etc. We would care/compare about as much as we do vs Louisville, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and Detroit.

See, this is where logic fails. If Cleveland has so much more to offer than either Cincy or Columbus, why are people continuing to leave? I don't get some of you Cleveland posters. I understand the desire to defend your city, and I fully support a comeback, but simply saying Cleveland is better when the other two major cities in the state are growing far more rapidly and gaining amenities that previously maybe only Cleveland had... well something needs to be said for that.

I think the problem is that Cleveland continues to mostly live in the past. Yes, it was once one of the most important cities, not only in Ohio, but nationally. For the last 30+ years, however, the city has been defined not by its successes, but by its failures. Cleveland has to do more to step up. I know there is more development recently, but it still has not regained the luster it once had, not even close. You guys can't just say, "Well Cleveland is better because we have lots more stuff!" So what? In a few more decades, if not much sooner, Cincy and Columbus will have all of that and perhaps more anyway. I really think it's time that Cleveland completely redefined its role as a city. It has so much potential, but when all people talk about is the past, and when people continue to move away, it doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence that the next 30 years are going to be much different.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by austiNati

Nothing against Cleveland, but the lake "advantage" isn't an adavntage when it's not utilized. Honestly, Cincinnati will have a better and more accessable waterfront next year after construction is finished. The riverfront park currently under construction will be the nicest urban park in Ohio; Combined with Sawyer Point, Cincy's waterfront will dwarf Clevelands, and it's only a river, not even a lake. Just an observation.

Cincinnati Riverfront Park - Let's Bring It--TOGETHER!

I went through Cincy in November and was impressed at how much the riverfront area has changed. Very nice.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by BelieveInCleve

The Ohio River at Cincinnati is like 1,500 ft across of water with a flow/current, only so much you can do on it.

You certainly wouldn't want to swim in it!