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Right stats dont mean everything...... for example on paper Canton can look more dangerous than Youngstown. but i lived in both cities and Youngstown is much more dangerous than Canton..... in my opinon
I agree, living in Philly, these stats Cleve pulls up means nothing, I have been there, lived through it, and know what goes on. I have been gone for three years, but I go back to Philly every month, I still have family there, I know what goes on.
lastonestanding, People agree with me 95% of the time on here. And the people who dont agree with me sometimes...lets just say nearly all of them are known as being less than credible.
The only reason youre not using statistics is because they dont agree with what youre trying to say. A certain member on here was going to use the "stat" of murder rate since they thought it would show Philly was higher, until they realized that Cleveland actually had a higher murder rate than Philly so they stopped and said statistics mean nothing. A coincidence? I dont think so. Im using personal experiences as well, yet Im saying the opposite of you. The truth is that I dont personally know you and you dont personally know me so how are we supposed to know that the other is not making things up? I know that Im not, but what about you? Thats where the stats come in (if they are close to accurate).
If youve never lived in Cleveland or Philly, and know next to nothing about them why are you speaking on this argument as if you know about them? Chicago is over 6 times as large as Cleveland.
Scoob, I agree with you that Youngstown is much more dangerous than Canton. In that case although a couple places will show the overall crime rate of Canton as higher than Youngstown, just look at the murder rate and its pretty obvious which is worse. By the way, the majority of places show Youngstown as much more dangerous than Canton though http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/City...8_Rank_Rev.pdf 15. Youngstown 46. Canton.
This is by far the most cocky post I have ever read, you just probaly turned away many of the people reading your posts, and actually believing you. I can't believe you just said that.
Quote:
lastonestanding, People agree with me 95% of the time on here. And the people who dont agree with me sometimes...lets just say nearly all of them are known as being less than credible.
^Are you even serious?
I have read many times in the City vs City page where people disagree with you. It doesn't take much for someone to go back and read your posts, and people will realize that people disagree with you about 70% of the time.
LOL it was great though, you think people agree with you 95% of the time, nice. Made my day.
You were born and raised in Allentown, PA until you were 21. You mentioned this yourself before. Allentown is an hour away from Philly. Saying you are from Philly is like someone from Mansfield saying theyre from the city of Cleveland, its just not true. You probably grew up going to Philly for the sports games and your family saying how horrible Philly was and to never go there. After you grew up you went to your fancy college and became an IT Representative. Now you live in a wealthy Dayton suburb called Beavercreek and travel to Cities downtowns for business meetings. You stay in your fancy downtown and suburban hotels. Youve never lived in the city of Cleveland and most likely never even lived in the city of Philly. What makes you think you have any idea what goes on there? You probably got robbed once in center city and base everything about Philly with that.
Me on the other hand, I was born in Cleveland (yes the city) on the westside off Storer. I lived in the city of Cleveland between there and E85th and Superior (Hough/St. Clair-Superior). The rest of my childhood was spent between Central Lorain, South Elyria, and those same areas in Cleveland. I was in poverty, went to the public schools, witnessed and went through a lot of crimes. I have had many family members and friends killed and overdosed on drugs along with good friends and family who are now serving long prison sentences. I got into a bad lifestyle and to support myself I had to drop out of school, but years later got my GED. In my childhood I had to go to different areas across the NE for short periods especially, NYC, Philly, Jersey, Chicago, just to name a few. From ages 22-27 is when I was gone the whole time. Im half Puerto Rican, I have family on the Puerto Rican side of Broad st. in North Philly/West Kensington/Fairhill etc. This was the main place I stayed when I was around Philly, but Ive been to most the city and suburbs, and also Camden. I lived there for about 4 months at one time not counting all the times I visited and passed through.
I believe Im more qualified to speak on both Philly and Cleveland, thank you very much.
All of us havent had perfect lives in wealthy suburbs. I talk about the negative because it effects me. Just this year Ive lost 2 more friends to violence.
I made that Cleveland crime thread because it was requested by several people. The city of Cleveland and the stats lie about the murder rate, there are several other sites that keep track of it like that as well. To add to that, Im not the only one who posts in there. There at least 5 other regulars in that thread that do the same thing that I do.
And contrary to what you may think, I dont bash Cleveland and just talk about the negative. Cleveland is a great city and a great metro although it has fallen onto some very hard times. It may seem I just talk about the negative, but any positive I will always be happy about and report and conversate about whether on here or elsewhere.
You on the other hand look through your rose colored glasses and refuse to even acknowledge that there is any negative things going on. But then again you havent lived in the city of Cleveland and dont know much about it, so I cant expect you to care or be effected by this stuff but it is real and people are being effected by it. Youve seen part of my story on the last post. Look at this from my point of view to try to understand where Im coming from, and just for a moment consider that you could be the one thats wrong.
You dont use stats because they dont show what you want them to. If the stats agreed with what you were saying, than you would be using them right now. It cant be that you just "dont use" stats, you dont agree with the ones that are already shown here that you dont even have to look for, so that argument about not having time to "surf the web for crime stats" is out the window. Not to mention that it takes literally less than 15 seconds to find those stats, so that argument makes even less sense. If you can find some real stats that are on your side of the argument then go get them, but I doubt you will.
Ive been a member of this site for a while and have a lot of posts on a lot of different topics, it just so happens that the only posts of mine you have seen are the ones where Im arguing in threads like this. 90% of the time Im speaking on entirely different topics than this, and 95% of the time everyone will agree with me. I also dont think its a coincidence that the majority of people that argue with me are known to talk about things they dont know about and make up things. Not talking about anyone specifically in this thread though.
Yes the Cavs are still in the lead and I hope they can pull this one off, then win 2 more to go onto the finals, and finally win a championship for Cleveland. Im watching the game right now.
Like I said I would I came back wit some stats 4 ya, and these stats agree with what Im saying. First in Chicago from April 22, 2009 to May 22, 2009 theres been 34,384 crime incidents in Chicago and the rougher sections report over 1200 to 1500 a month, but the same thing in Chicago like u said in Cleveland, most go unreported....
Since your a person who post alot of links, check these links out
Yes 62 people were killed in Chicago last July, I was actually there when over 30 people got shot in one weekend... My fam and I was on our way to the Taste of Chicago and we heard three people got shot the night before and we decided to stay home.
Tracking murders in Chicago | RedEye | Home (http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/red-chicagomurders-map,0,2276.story - broken link)
This site keeps track of homicides in Chicago, last May Chicago had 46 in one month, so far this month theres been 38.
508 Chicago School Students Shot In Schools Over 16 Month Period - wcbstv.com (http://wcbstv.com/national/Chicago.School.Students.2.955165.html - broken link)
This is reality... 508 in 16-months?
American Renaissance News: 508 Chicago School Students Shot in 16 Months (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/03/508_chicago_sch.php - broken link)
This is from CNN, and has been mentioned on CNN numerous times. The scary part is I have numerous cousins who are CPS students and this has become normal to them. I pray they are never apart of this statistic.
Chicago finished last year with over 500 homicides. The former governor actually wanted Chicago streets to be policed by the national guard. Last summer more people were killed in Chicago than soldiers in Iraq.
125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer - cbs2chicago.com (http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.html - broken link)
This article actually mentioned the incident at the taste and also mentions what I just said above.
Hudson homicides puts spotlight on crime in Englewood (http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-2291-hudson-homicides-puts-spotlight-on-crime-in-englewood.html - broken link)
Here's an article about the neighborhood I used to live in in Chicago, which also is the same neighborhood Jennifer Hudson is from. Mind you, Englewood has less then 40,000 people and averages between 30 to 50 a year. I remember one night when three people were shot at a local night club down the street and I didnt even know about it until someone told me... I slept thru the whole thing and Im pretty sure most of the neighborhood did as well.
Info on the Black P Stone nation, which has been in existence for decades. My father actually told me about when he was a kid growing up in Chicago the Stones used to recruit people into their organization and if you refused, they killed you. He actually knew someone who returned home from Vietnam surviving that and came back to Chicago and was approached by a stone and refused, the next day a car drove up to his porch and someone fired a gun out of the car killing him.
More info, I can keep going, but I hate doing this because it depresses me. Im not trying to make it seem like Chicago has more of a crime problem than anywhere else, but my argument is that Cleveland is not alone. Yes, per capita Cleveland has a higher crime rate than Chicago, but Chicago's crime problem is by far one of the worse. And if you talking about cities that are rated the most dangerous per capita, check this out
This article talks about Chicago's influence on Gary, IN high crime rate and other info. Gary, IN is heavily influenced by Chicago, especially its only 30 minutes away.
Again, I can go on, but Im sure you get the picture. One more thing, last summer I got a call from a friend who grew up with a cousin of mine in Chicago who called me to tell me he just found out one of his boys was murdered in a gang dispute, but what really made me disgusted was how he found out. His friends mom got mail at the front door of her house. The mail was a part of her sons body cut off and delivered to her front door. I told one of my cousins in Chicago what happened and his response was more so that type of stuff happens here.... Again, we're talking about it, but real people are living it and thats everywhere.....
Also, this will probably be the only time you see me do this.
Like I said I would I came back wit some stats 4 ya, and these stats agree with what Im saying. First in Chicago from April 22, 2009 to May 22, 2009 theres been 34,384 crime incidents in Chicago and the rougher sections report over 1200 to 1500 a month, but the same thing in Chicago like u said in Cleveland, most go unreported....
Since your a person who post alot of links, check these links out
Yes 62 people were killed in Chicago last July, I was actually there when over 30 people got shot in one weekend... My fam and I was on our way to the Taste of Chicago and we heard three people got shot the night before and we decided to stay home.
Tracking murders in Chicago | RedEye | Home (http://redeye.chicagotribune.com/red-chicagomurders-map,0,2276.story - broken link)
This site keeps track of homicides in Chicago, last May Chicago had 46 in one month, so far this month theres been 38.
508 Chicago School Students Shot In Schools Over 16 Month Period - wcbstv.com (http://wcbstv.com/national/Chicago.School.Students.2.955165.html - broken link)
This is reality... 508 in 16-months?
American Renaissance News: 508 Chicago School Students Shot in 16 Months (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/03/508_chicago_sch.php - broken link)
This is from CNN, and has been mentioned on CNN numerous times. The scary part is I have numerous cousins who are CPS students and this has become normal to them. I pray they are never apart of this statistic.
Chicago finished last year with over 500 homicides. The former governor actually wanted Chicago streets to be policed by the national guard. Last summer more people were killed in Chicago than soldiers in Iraq.
125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer - cbs2chicago.com (http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.html - broken link)
This article actually mentioned the incident at the taste and also mentions what I just said above.
Hudson homicides puts spotlight on crime in Englewood (http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-2291-hudson-homicides-puts-spotlight-on-crime-in-englewood.html - broken link)
Here's an article about the neighborhood I used to live in in Chicago, which also is the same neighborhood Jennifer Hudson is from. Mind you, Englewood has less then 40,000 people and averages between 30 to 50 a year. I remember one night when three people were shot at a local night club down the street and I didnt even know about it until someone told me... I slept thru the whole thing and Im pretty sure most of the neighborhood did as well.
Info on the Black P Stone nation, which has been in existence for decades. My father actually told me about when he was a kid growing up in Chicago the Stones used to recruit people into their organization and if you refused, they killed you. He actually knew someone who returned home from Vietnam surviving that and came back to Chicago and was approached by a stone and refused, the next day a car drove up to his porch and someone fired a gun out of the car killing him.
More info, I can keep going, but I hate doing this because it depresses me. Im not trying to make it seem like Chicago has more of a crime problem than anywhere else, but my argument is that Cleveland is not alone. Yes, per capita Cleveland has a higher crime rate than Chicago, but Chicago's crime problem is by far one of the worse. And if you talking about cities that are rated the most dangerous per capita, check this out
This article talks about Chicago's influence on Gary, IN high crime rate and other info. Gary, IN is heavily influenced by Chicago, especially its only 30 minutes away.
Again, I can go on, but Im sure you get the picture. One more thing, last summer I got a call from a friend who grew up with a cousin of mine in Chicago who called me to tell me he just found out one of his boys was murdered in a gang dispute, but what really made me disgusted was how he found out. His friends mom got mail at the front door of her house. The mail was a part of her sons body cut off and delivered to her front door. I told one of my cousins in Chicago what happened and his response was more so that type of stuff happens here.... Again, we're talking about it, but real people are living it and thats everywhere.....
Also, this will probably be the only time you see me do this.
i've lived everything you're talking about, so i can relate to what you say. i grew up dirt poor, with my mom, since my parents separated when i was around 9. my teen years were pretty bad and they continued to get worse as i grew older. since i grew up in poverty my whole life, i was enamored by the concept of having money so i did whatever i could to obtain it. i had to have the flyest clothes, sickest jewelry, and my shoe game had to be on point. money was scarce for me and i felt like i had to do certain things to get it. this lifestyle followed me all the way to hartford (and high ridge gardens in danbury for a short while, i was actually shot here with a .22 in the arm and robbed, i never got shot or robbed in hartford, i just read one of my earlier posts in this thread and felt like i had to correct my mistake) i when i moved out when i was 17 all the way till i was 21. i'm 22 and i just recently got out of that by finding a good job and trying to go to college. i have very strong regrets in my life, but i can't take them back now, but at least i realized that and now i have nowhere to go but up.
Last edited by ctownplayer; 06-01-2009 at 02:44 AM..
lastonestanding, those arent exactly the kind of stats I was talking about...
Youre side of the argument was that Chicago was more or as dangerous as Cleveland. How do those stats show that? They dont.
Youre posting links of things I already know. Im very familiar with Chicago. A lot of those stats are using raw numbers without mentioning that the city has nearly 2.8 million people. So since Chicago has more raw numbers of all crimes than Camden NJ somehow that makes Chicago as bad or worse than Camden? No. That means Chicago has a lot bigger of a crime problem than Camden? No. You use per capita, not raw numbers. That and actually being very familiar with the cities, which I am.
Does Chicago have a big crime problem? yes. Are there some very rough neighborhoods in Chicago? yes. Is it more dangerous and with a higher crime rate than Cleveland? No. Im not trying to make Cleveland look worse, nor should I have to prove this in any way. Its just fact. All Im trying to do is show the truth. If someone came in here talking about how much more dangerous Cleveland was than Detroit, I would be the first to defend it and show Cleveland was less dangerous than Detroit, because it is. If Chicago was more dangerous with a higher crime rate than Cleveland, I would say that as well, but its not. By the way I have lived it, and am still living it. Just this year Ive had 2 friends murdered already (R.I.P.).
Last edited by BelieveInCleve; 06-01-2009 at 05:15 AM..
Sorry, Cle, but you won't win this one. Cleveland has some bad areas but if you've ever spent any time in Austin, North Lawndale, Englewood, Garfield Park, Back of the Yards - I think you'd pretty much give up your argument. I've spent most of my growing up years in the Akron-Cleveland area and as an urban photographer and have spent plenty of time in East Cleveland and some of ''our'' more depressed neighborhoods and I never got the same feelings I did while in some of Chicago's down-trodden neighborhoods. Chicago isn't really a city you can compare in the same way as Cleveland based on its size, but what you can do is measure the dangerous neighborhoods with dangerous neighborhoods, and hands down, Cleveland's worse isn't as bad as Chicago's worse. This also says nothing of how improved the areas around Cabrini-Green and Robert Taylor are now since being (mostly) torn down. There was nothing comparable to those two housing projects in their hay-day - absolutely nothing.
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. A coincidence? I dont think so. Im using personal experiences as well, yet Im saying the opposite of you. The truth is that I dont personally know you and you dont personally know me so how are we supposed to know that the other is not making things up? I know that Im not, but what about you? Thats where the stats come in (if they are close to accurate).
