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View Poll Results: Do you support building of passenger rail in Ohio?
YES! Not only would I support this, but i would ride it! 95 71.97%
Yes. But I would never ride it. 3 2.27%
It doesn't affect me or any one I know. 12 9.09%
No. Blah. Terrible idea! 22 16.67%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 6,871,711 times
Reputation: 619

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthBound? View Post
And NASTY, TOO!!!!

The last time I was on one of those rolling dog pounds, it smelled terrible and the driver was a arrogant jerk. Most of the stations are a mess and the employees have no idea what's going on most of the time.
Exactly. That is the first thing that comes to mind, how dirty not only the buses are, but the stations as well.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,686 posts, read 13,089,180 times
Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
Exactly. That is the first thing that comes to mind, how dirty not only the buses are, but the stations as well.
That's why I call them "Rolling Dog Pounds" now, they smell like a dog pound.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,749,800 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
Hilarious that the guy from New Jersey is calling Ohio a "dying state." The only thing saving NJ's bacon at this point is its proximity to NYC and its brass-balled governor. If you don't want him, we'll take him.

Rail is not cheap, and government spending does not stimulate growth or strengthen the economy. And what do you know about Ohio's transportation plan other than we're not building the train albatross?
My state feeds off NYC.....and has been booming lately in other areas. The Governor hasn't really done anything , but thats a different topic. Rail is still pretty cheap compared to some of the other projects in this state. We had an aggressive TOD policy since 1995 , which has caused growth around the stations and lines.....I suggest you look into Rahway , Harrison , and New Brunswicks Revelopment plans....each of the 165 stations has had the area around it rezoned for TOD. Its brought alot of jobs and cash follow into the state and local towns / cities. Every Northeastern state has a TOD plan in place now , but only NJ has been aggressive at it.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,686 posts, read 13,089,180 times
Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
My state feeds off NYC.....and has been booming lately in other areas. The Governor hasn't really done anything , but thats a different topic. Rail is still pretty cheap compared to some of the other projects in this state. We had an aggressive TOD policy since 1995 , which has caused growth around the stations and lines.....I suggest you look into Rahway , Harrison , and New Brunswick's Development plans....each of the 165 stations has had the area around it rezoned for TOD. Its brought allot of jobs and cash follow into the state and local towns / cities. Every Northeastern state has a TOD plan in place now , but only NJ has been aggressive at it.
Ohio is always going to be slow at catching up with the rest of the country. Heck some of these nimrods in Ohio's back country are still sporting their (Mullets) and wearing Earnhart jackets. .
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:56 PM
 
69 posts, read 145,563 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthBound? View Post
Earnhart jackets. .
#03 Forever!

But seriously, although Ohio is a relatively "dense" state, there's a slight problem with order of magnitude when comparing to NJ and other foreign countries . . . If hypothetically centered on Trenton, NJ, the same 250 (direct) miles proposed in the 3C corridor services almost 38 million people today. That's a lot of train fares. . . Makes sense. . . Is sustainable. .. worthy of re-investment. . . .Speaks for itself.. . .should be a source of national pride.

The argument here is to essentially connect Dayton & Columbus to the existing rail net in Ohio, with a high risk of underperformance.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:35 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 7,136,384 times
Reputation: 3014
Quote:
Falling behind is an incremental, gradual process and Ohio has gotten superbly talented at doing it on a methodical basis since about 1975 and you can't point to one phenomenon that "caused" it. Stagnation is a cultural effect, it becomes rooted in an area's identity, and we're there.

It's not an immediate phenomenon. Some company decides to relocate in state X or Y instead of Ohio because the infrastructure is better elsewhere and they see better accessibility and access to workers. That process plays out over weeks, months, years. In time Ohio bleeds jobs and opportunity but there is never a single event that you can identify.

That's why I said that rail is a speculation - a long term business investment - on the part of government. Just as tea baggers preach about individual initiative to invest somewhat blindly in business, there are types of infrastructure that it only makes sense for government to invest in, and the payoff to the government is an increased tax base over years or decades.

This is a large scale version of the penny pinching business owner who drives the company out of business by hassling everyone about the staples and office copies they use and who refuses to spend money to modernize. It seems to make survival sense to conservatively save short term funds but it can kill you when the money leverages jobs and growth indirectly.

You get obsessed with mere survival and as a result you don't build anything for the future. That characterizes Ohio to a "T".
Excellent observation.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:22 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,246,393 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Sure it does! Since we're talking about transportation spending, the first example that comes to mind is the boom of suburban sprawl, spurred by government spending on highways.
That's not growth. That's simply transferring wealth, which does not result in a net gain. In fact, money is usually lost during such a process.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:27 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,246,393 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthBound? View Post
And NASTY, TOO!!!!

The last time I was on one of those rolling dog pounds, it smelled terrible and the driver was a arrogant jerk. Most of the stations are a mess and the employees have no idea what's going on most of the time.
Well, if there were more demand for such service, it would probably be better well-kept. The point is that people prefer to drive in their own cars.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:28 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,246,393 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
My state feeds off NYC.....and has been booming lately in other areas. The Governor hasn't really done anything , but thats a different topic. Rail is still pretty cheap compared to some of the other projects in this state. We had an aggressive TOD policy since 1995 , which has caused growth around the stations and lines.....I suggest you look into Rahway , Harrison , and New Brunswicks Revelopment plans....each of the 165 stations has had the area around it rezoned for TOD. Its brought alot of jobs and cash follow into the state and local towns / cities. Every Northeastern state has a TOD plan in place now , but only NJ has been aggressive at it.
And that development pulls money from other areas. It's not a net gain.

I've also heard some say that in the Northeast, the "development" occurring near many rail stations is building of parking lots.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,496 posts, read 9,433,130 times
Reputation: 5604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
That's not growth. That's simply transferring wealth, which does not result in a net gain. In fact, money is usually lost during such a process.
Not that I disagree with you, but tell that to the suburbs that were small farming villages before they became large, bedroom communities for the central city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
Well, if there were more demand for such service, it would probably be better well-kept. The point is that people prefer to drive in their own cars.
But you don't know if people prefer to drive in their own cars, because there isn't a real choice. If you don't drive, you become a second class citizen, and are expected to be thankful for the few crumbs that are thrown your way. (i.e. the sorry state of most mass transit systems throughout Ohio, Greyhound, etc.)

Private industry can't compete with government subsidized roads. Here is an analogy: What if government decided to subsidize satellite TV? The owner was still responsible for buying, installing, and maintaining the dish, but service was free after that. How long do you think traditional cable companies that still had to charge a monthly service fee to cover their costs would last?
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