Cincinnati MSA to surpass Cleveland MSA in population this year (Columbus: moving to, metro)

[BelieveInCleve]

I would have thought that Canton is farther away. The point was that Canton is directly connected to Akron, which is very connected to Cleveland.

Dayton is 56 miles from Cincinnati. Canton is 59 miles away from Cleveland. But, if you want to add Springfield with Dayton (Its in Daytons MSA), its much farther away. Springfield is 84 miles away from Cincinnati. That means YOUNGSTOWN is closer to Cleveland (73 miles) than Springfield is to Cincinnati.

But, Unusual fire is right.

[bobmulk]

It doesn't matter what any of you think. The Census Bureau makes the definition and the opinions of all of us are irrelevant. If the Census Bureau says it's true, no use fighting it. They are the best we've got at making such determinations. Deal with it.

[Cincy-Rise]

They are the best we've got at making such determinations. Deal with it.

From the Washington Post ...



Counting Countdown

Remember the story about how the census in 2010 might have to rely on paper -- Holy Moly! -- because of an apparently botched $624 million contract for handheld data collection devices?

The overall budget for the census was originally set at about $12 billion. That was before cost overruns because of problems related to the troubled device, which is under development by the Harris Corporation of Melbourne, Fla.

Anyway, the Government Accountability Office is now placing the deal on on its "High Risk" list of projects vulnerable to fraud, waste and abuse.

"GAO decided it was important to flag the census now because of the survey's impact on everything from the apportionment of congressional seats to the distribution of billions of dollars in federal funds," said a GAO announcement.

"GAO added the upcoming census to the high-risk list due to a combination of long-standing deficiencies and emerging challenges, including shortcomings in the Census Bureau's management of information technology, weak performances by technology that the Bureau plans to use for data collection, uncertainty of cost estimates, and the elimination of several dress rehearsal activities," the release said.

Somebody, please tell me how this happened.

And that's not all, fans. Congress is getting exercised about the troubles, according to The Hill.

"The frustration is bipartisan. The committee's ranking Republican, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, called the contract's problems 'enormous' and also said past Census officials were largely to blame," the Hill story said.

"I'm concerned that the census might have to revert to a pen-and-paper census," Collins said, according to the Hill.

Pen and paper are good technologies. But with so many people to count, and so little time, they might not suffice this time around.

Counting Countdown - Government Inc.


[quote author=arenn link=topic=3213.msg273842#msg273842 date=1207411613]
I don't know why anyone would think the Social Compact methodology is better than the Census Bureau
[/quote]


Problems with census PDAs could prompt a return to pencil and paper

"Harris Corp. may have nothing but good things to say about the HTC-made PDAs it's planning to supply for use in the 2010 census, but it looks like the handhelds are already starting to cause plenty of headaches for census officials, who are reportedly even considering a return to pencil and paper if things can't be resolved. As the AP reports, the problems start with the contract for the devices, which originally clocked in at $596 million, has since grown to $647 million, and could eventually balloon to as much as $2 billion. As if that wasn't enough, the handheld has also apparently proven to be "too complex" for some of the temporary census workers that took part in a test last year, and the device was reportedly "not initially programmed to transmit the large amounts of data necessary." As a result, census officials are now said to be considering a number of different options to scale back the use of the devices, only one of which apparently actually has the headcounters entering data into 'em as they go door-to-door."



Census Bureau goes forward with plans to ditch PDAs

"While it doesn't exactly come as a surprise given recent developments, Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez has now told a House subcommittee that the Census Bureau will in fact be ditching its much-ballyhooed PDAs in favor of paper and pencil for the 2010 census. According to the AP, that fairly drastic move comes as part of a package of changes that will ultimately add as much as $3 billion to the cost of the census, bringing the total cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $14 billion. Among other things, Gutierrez said that a "lack of effective communication with one of our key contractors" was one of the factors that "significantly contributed to the challenges." The handhelds will apparently still see some use during the census, however, although only for verifying street addresses using the PDA's GPS functionality. For its part, Harris Corp. (which had the contract to provide the PDAs) put the best spin on things, saying that it was "encouraged that automation and the adoption of new technology is moving forward, even if in a more narrowly focused fashion." Of course, it's still getting its $600 million+, so it can't really complain all that much."

Posts tagged Census at Engadget



The government messed up, now they are trying to remedy the situation at the cost of miscounts by cities and metros across the board.




GAO adds 2010 census to list of high-risk programs
By ELISE CASTELLI
March 06, 2008
The 2010 census is so troubled the Government Accountability Office is adding it to its high-risk list, which tracks federal management areas in need of close attention to prevent waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement.

Shortcomings in Census Bureau management of information technology that will be used to gather and store census data, as well as weak performance of the technology in field tests, contributed to GAO’s decision to add the census to its watch list. Cancellation of several dress rehearsals and uncertainty of cost estimates for the headcount also raised concerns at GAO, according to a March 6 news release.

The census, which is estimated to cost $11 billion, could see those costs increase by $600 million to $2 billion, David Powner, GAO director for information technology management issues, told the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee on March 5.

This is a special addition to GAO’s list, which is normally updated every two years at the start of a new Congress. GAO added the census to the list now because it could “impact on everything, from the apportionment of congressional seats to the distribution of billions of dollars in federal funds,” the GAO news release said.


“Proactive measures now, well in advance of the actual census, can do much to ensure accurate and reliable outcomes in 2010,” David Walker, comptroller general and head of GAO, said in a March 6 statement.

FederalTimes.com

[hillside]

here's the facts. cleveland is a slightly bigger city, because of the population and national social and economic influence. not because of a skyscraper (d.c.), the big 3 sports (l.a.), highways (the cinti bypass is the third longest continuous loop in the world) or a lake (milwaukee). but it's in flux. in 2010, cincinnati will have a larger metro. ne ohio will still be more populated than sw ohio, but ne ohio is shrinking and sw ohio is growing. cincinnati has a little ways to go to overtake cleveland as far as making improvements in transportation and to a lesser degree, entertainment, but in 2020 it could be a reality.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by hillside

here's the facts. cleveland is a slightly bigger city, because of the population and national social and economic influence. not because of a skyscraper (d.c.), the big 3 sports (l.a.), highways (the cinti bypass is the third longest continuous loop in the world) or a lake (milwaukee). but it's in flux. in 2010, cincinnati will have a larger metro. ne ohio will still be more populated than sw ohio, but ne ohio is shrinking and sw ohio is growing. cincinnati has a little ways to go to overtake cleveland as far as making improvements in transportation and to a lesser degree, entertainment, but in 2020 it could be a reality.

In 2010 thats a possibility, but things are changing in both cities, and the future looks good.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

In 2010 thats a possibility, but things are changing in both cities, and the future looks good.

not to nitpick, but i wouldn't say the future looks good per se, but things are looking up for regional change in cincinnati. the cities of cleveland and cincinnati are going to struggle through this recession. honestly the way i see either city proper truly "coming back" is through the suburbs. life will have to get so attractive in the burbs (partially by way of a struggling city), that the increase of professional growth and national migration for jobs will fuel a need to live in the city again, much in the way atlanta turned around. basically, i believe it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

i meant cincinnati's transportation won't be up to par with cleveland or on line to be until 2020 or so. i hope they consider making streetcars a citywide thing in addition to light and heavy rail going up 71 and to dayton. vine, northside, csu, walnut hills, price hill, norwood, pleasant ridge, avondale and madisonville could all benefit big time.

[Mikieo415]

Does anybody really care which area is bigger?

[hillside]

i care if the cincinnati market is doing well. cleveland's an afterthought.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by hillside

i care if the cincinnati market is doing well. cleveland's an afterthought.

not a diss at cleveland at all. ohio needs cleveland to rebound, but i'm just not from there.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by hillside

not a diss at cleveland at all. ohio needs cleveland to rebound, but i'm just not from there.

I agree though.