Cincinnati MSA to surpass Cleveland MSA in population this year (Columbus: insurance, crime)

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by MABCle

Cleveland and Akron are already a Combined Statistical area with 2,931,000, versus CIncy's CSA of 2,114,000.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I recently read that the Census Bureau is considering making Cincinnati and Dayton a CSA because they have just about grown into one another. If that happens, the potential Cin-Day CSA, which is growing, would have a slightly larger population than the Cle-Akr CSA, which is shrinking. This certainly isn't scientific, but the impression I got from driving on I-77 between Cleveland and Akron and on I-75 between Cincinnati and Dayton is that the Cincinnati and Dayton MSA's are closer to actually merging than are the Cleveland and Akron MSA's.

[MABCle]

Driving I-77 is not acurate because most of that is the Cuyahoga Valley Nat recreation area meaning: No development can happen there. Drive up I-271 or Ohio-8 and you'll see why they are closer.

Further more look at the following map. An endless stream of INCORPORATED suburbs from Downtown Cleveland to Downtown Akron. I believe CIncy and Dayton still have some 17 miles of nothing between them.
If anything Medina COunty should not be part of Cleveland's MSA.

[wrightflyer]

Just because their are more incorporated areas between two cities does not mean there may be a larger population. Certain areas, such as Liberty Twp/West Chester, are booming despite the fact that they lack an incorporated area. The question I think should be considered is where are these places growing towards (North, East, etc...) and where will that growth go in the next ten years? This will determine future lines for MSA's and CSA's. From what I've seen over the years is a trend of growth to the north of Cincinnati and growth south and east of Dayton.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Just because their are more incorporated areas between two cities does not mean there may be a larger population. Certain areas, such as Liberty Twp/West Chester, are booming despite the fact that they lack an incorporated area.

Exactly! There are a lot of heavily populated unincorporated areas in SW Ohio, even in Hamilton County itself (examples: Anderson Township, Columbia Township, Sycamore Township, Green Township, Colerain Township). The townships in Butler County and Warren County (which are between Cincinnati and Dayton) are experiencing tremendous growth. In conservative SW Ohio, incorporation is often viewed as a negative because it typically means more taxes; unlike the incorporated suburbs, most if not all of the townships do not have an income tax.

Regardless of whether Akron should be part of the Cleveland MSA or whether Cincinnati and Dayton should be combined into a CSA, it is what it is, and the Cincinnati MSA will almost certainly be above the Cleveland MSA when the Census Bureau releases its July 1, 2007 population estimates next spring. From what I've seen, the MSA figures are much more widely used and quoted than the CSA figures; thus, having a larger MSA population seems to give an area more clout. Am I misinformed about that?

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

Exactly! There are a lot of heavily populated unincorporated areas in SW Ohio, even in Hamilton County itself (examples: Anderson Township, Columbia Township, Sycamore Township, Green Township, Colerain Township). The townships in Butler County and Warren County (which are between Cincinnati and Dayton) are experiencing tremendous growth. In conservative SW Ohio, incorporation is often viewed as a negative because it typically means more taxes; unlike the incorporated suburbs, most if not all of the townships do not have an income tax.

Regardless of whether Akron should be part of the Cleveland MSA or whether Cincinnati and Dayton should be combined into a CSA, it is what it is, and the Cincinnati MSA will almost certainly be above the Cleveland MSA when the Census Bureau releases its July 1, 2007 population estimates next spring. From what I've seen, the MSA figures are much more widely used and quoted than the CSA figures; thus, having a larger MSA population seems to give an area more clout. Am I misinformed about that?

Did I ever say Cleveland would still be higher than Cincy? That's not what I am arguing. I was telling you why AKron and CLeveland are more connected!!!

[CTownNative]

Cincinnati can pass Cleveland in MSA if it wants.Cleveland is still more widely known,more urban,and in my opinion way better than Cincinnati.Cincinnati is more of a southern city than it is a MidWestern city.Althrough I still think that Cleveland is more of a NorthEastern city.But really why does this MSA matter.Im pretty sure Cleveland is still more densely populated than Cincinnati is.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by MABCle

Did I ever say Cleveland would still be higher than Cincy? That's not what I am arguing. I was telling you why AKron and CLeveland are more connected!!!

But whether Akron and Cleveland are more connected is irrelevant to the fact that the Cincy MSA will be higher than Cleveland MSA when the next set of estimates are released next spring! Whether you think it's fair or not, do you agree that the MSA figures are more widely used and quoted than CSA figures in the national media and lead to more clout for an area?

Also, you are very misinformed if you think that there is "17 miles of nothing" between the Cincy and Dayton suburbs. That may have been true 10 years ago, but it certainly isn't anymore. As 'wrightflyer' and I pointed out, unincorporated townships can and often do have larger populations than incorporated suburbs, and the unincorporated townships between Cincy and Dayton are growing rapidly - to the point where the Cincy and Dayton suburbs have just about grown into each other.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by CTownNative

Cincinnati can pass Cleveland in MSA if it wants.Cleveland is still more widely known,more urban,and in my opinion way better than Cincinnati.Cincinnati is more of a southern city than it is a MidWestern city.Althrough I still think that Cleveland is more of a NorthEastern city.But really why does this MSA matter.Im pretty sure Cleveland is still more densely populated than Cincinnati is.

Metropolitan statistical area (MSA) population figures matter quite a bit. They're always quoted/published by the media when they are updated every year by the Census Bureau; being bigger gives an area more economic and political clout as well as recognition in popular culture. For example, MSA figures are often used in determining things such as how much federal funding areas get for various projects.

BTW, I disagree with you that Cincy is more southern than midwestern - while there it has somewhat of a southern culture, it is definitely more midwestern, IMHO. I agree with you that Cleveland is more northeastern than midwestern. Regardless, you're certainly entitled to your opinion that Cleveland is better, but it's obvious that there are more people who think the opposite is true given that the Cleveland metro area lost 1.5% of its population from 2000-2006 while the population of the Cincinnati metro area increased 4.7% over the same period.

[JoeP]

Akron essentially borders Cleveland. If Akron didn't exist, the county would definitely be part of Cleveland's SMA. Generally they are considered one area, but in some terms, Akron wants its own identity which is understandable, in reality it's one area.

The same simply can't be said for Cincy and Dayton.

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

Metropolitan statistical area (MSA) population figures matter quite a bit. They're always quoted/published by the media when they are updated every year by the Census Bureau; being bigger gives an area more economic and political clout as well as recognition in popular culture. For example, MSA figures are often used in determining things such as how much federal funding areas get for various projects.

BTW, I disagree with you that Cincy is more southern than midwestern - while there it has somewhat of a southern culture, it is definitely more midwestern, IMHO. I agree with you that Cleveland is more northeastern than midwestern. Regardless, you're certainly entitled to your opinion that Cleveland is better, but it's obvious that there are more people who think the opposite is true given that the Cleveland metro area lost 1.5% of its population from 2000-2006 while the population of the Cincinnati metro area increased 4.7% over the same period.

Most of the time national media quotes Cleveland's metro population as 2.9 million. Economically these matter little because Cleveland's economic area blows anything else in Ohio out of the water. Additionally Cleveland's market is way bigger than Columbus' , which is number two then Cincy's. The market numbers are important because retailers as well as businesses look at market size. By 2010 I wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland and Akron become the Cleveland-Akron Metropolitan area. Cincinnati's growth is positive so that's good, but at only .67% per year that points to just how weak Ohio's economy is overall.